Since a few months it was possible to attribute web covers to artists in the database, instead of their Youtube channel or simply "unknown". These covers are now being displayed in a separate table at the bottom of the Covers tab of an artist page. Check out for example Billy Joel .
A usual "read" is sufficient.
Last edit: 2016-01-25 06:20:17 UTC by Bastien
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Read. But:
As Billy Joel already released "Auld Lang Syne" 15 years earier on a real record - Auld Lang Syne...
Are we supposed to add web covers in addition to physical releases (and vice versa)?
Since we are legitimizing these youtube covers, I still don't understand why we don't allow promotional copies of cover songs. I know this has been a controversy for years on this subject.
The promotional songs have:
1. a physical copy of the song ( a vinyl 45)
2. play on radio stations
3. sell on ebay and other websites
4. can be found on youtube.
Yet these web covers can be in the database, but only have 1 of the 4 characteristics that a promotional cover carries.
What am I missing here???
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EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH - Haters Gonna Hate
The general availability to the public.
Read. But:
As Billy Joel already released "Auld Lang Syne" 15 years earier on a real record - Auld Lang Syne...
Are we supposed to add web covers in addition to physical releases (and vice versa)?
My question as well. When is it a web cover and when is it a real cover? I guess the web cover of Auld Lang Syne shouldn't be there...
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Really wild, General!
The general availability to the public is youtube and buy it on ebay.
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EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH - Haters Gonna Hate
The general availability to the public .
http://secondhandsongs.com/topic/59808
The above promotional song is:
1) Available on youtube
2) Can be bought as a vinyl 45 or listened to as a mp3 at collectors frenzy PeterIvers
3) Can also be bought at Discogs and 45cat
That's more availability than a web cover.
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EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH - Haters Gonna Hate
The keywords here are COMMERCIAL release and/or GENERAL availability.
Promos are/were advance pressings (these days digital/non-physical in 90 % of the cases) issued only to media or club DJs, not to the public. Except for occasional radio edits, they tracks are the same as on regular releases.
Those may become collectors items and therefore being sold on eBay (partly way) LATER than the regular release, but that's no general availability the public.
YT clips hardly ever reflect anything else than the normal versions. Furthermore they are mostly posted by fans after the release. That's got nothing to do with official releases.
Example: I own a 7" of "Behind the Wheel" by Depeche Mode, cat. no. DJBONG15. The A side is a 20 sec. shorter version of the title track and it is a sought after item sold at eBay for up to €750. Although 50 of those were handed out to radio DJs upfront of the original release, this is no release fitting for the database.
I guess this matter fits better in the guidelines section, though 
PS: a) Items on sale via eBay, discogs, collector's frenzy etc. are only second hand b) being listenable somewhere is no criteria for commercial availability.
PPS: I'm definitely not in favor of so called web covers, in particular not of the amateur ones, and the only one I ever added was by a professional artist.
Last edit: 2016-01-25 15:55:13 UTC by camembert electrique
1. I have the same question as Erik and Jon -- are web covers permitted where the artist has released the work?
2. I have generally avoided adding web covers by professionals because I thought the answer to number 1 was "no". Because of that, the amount of time it would take to research whether an artist has actually released a cover of the work, and because if an artist subsequently released a performance of the work, the web cover would seemingly be inappropriate, I basically haven't bothered with professional web covers.
3. I haven't added that many web covers, but when I do, they are by amateurs -- the exact opposite of Erik's preference.
And therein lies the rub. Why web covers and not promotion copies. They can pull a video off of youtube at any time, but a 45, unless they start burning books and records, I still can play and hear it anywhere. I can buy it and I can hold it, unlike a video, plus I can record it and put it back on youtube if they take it down.
You said being listenable somewhere is no criteria for commercial availability, but it is. They probably made a couple of thousand of these promo 45's and handed them out to radio stations. Now, they have value and people are buying and selling them for a profit. So now there is also a general availability to the public to buy and sell them, unlike a web cover video. And I don't know what second hand has to do with it, it is still a viable product that can be bought and sold. So I believe it fits the criteria of GENERAL availability, more so than a web cover.
I believe promotion 45 vinyls cover both criteria, COMMERCIAL release and/or GENERAL availability. Whereas web covers only apply as GENERAL availability.
So if one should exist, the other one should also be included. Or dare,I say, taken down!
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EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH - Haters Gonna Hate
I was just trying to explain why the rule about promos is the way it is. Considering promos being of interest to at least supporters of the respective acts and partly also for the entire picture, I'm not against adding them. Entries have to include tracks not available on regular releases and their dates if issueing have to be proved, though. In many cases conflicts in terms of cat. nos. etc. may arise - but should be easy to solve.
Wayne, just for the definition: general availability means being available to everyone at the same time. If there is a new Bowie album, everybody upon its initial release date can buy it in each and every record shop and mall, by mail order, from iTunes etc.
1,500 promo copies (mostly, less were manufactured) only handed out to DJs or journalists, of which just a few and only one by one over the years find their ways to collectors via second hand channels, don't fulfill that criteria ;-)
My question as well. When is it a web cover and when is it a real cover? I guess the web cover of Auld Lang Syne shouldn't be there...
I reckon 'web covers' appearing after the same artist's release of the song on a proper record are not applicable.
Also, there should definitely be clear lines between real/official web releases, slight web covers and. f. ex., live versions by recording artists someone happened to film/record. Imagine hundreds of live versions filmed by Deadheads at Grateful Dead shows coming up....
Yes that is what I am concerned about..telephone videos and clunky stuff like that.
The Grateful Dead encourage their fans to film, so is that an official Deadhead video if they put it on youtube?
Plus, I do love my promos, there are some good cover songs out there. 
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EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH - Haters Gonna Hate
