The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face

Now added. Thanks!

Considering Ewan MacColl wrote it it makes sense that he recorded it first, but the Kingston Trio were a close second. Their Sept. 1962 version is on their Capitol LP "New Frontier". Peggy Seeger's version on Folkways LP 8734 "The New Briton Gazette Vol. 2" is also a 1962 recording. The Highwaymen (of Michael Row The Boat Ashore fame) did it in Oct. 1963. The Peter Paul & Mary version on Warner Brothers LP 1615 "See What Tomorrow Brings" has already been mentioned by a couple of people. After Gordon Lightfoot's 1966 version, the Brother Four did it in 1967 for their Columbia album "A New World's Record". In 1968, the Gosdin Brothers put it on their Capitol LP ST 2852 "Sounds Of Goodbye". So there were a lot of cover versions between the two you list as first and second.

As you note, the lists are not complete, nor IMO should we expect they ever will be complete. The database is a perennial work in progress, if you will, with a volunteer staff working in their free time, and with fairly strict requirements for proof that a cover version exists. And that process takes more time than just copying lists of covers presented by other websites and print sources.

That's certainly understandable. However, all the versions I list to SecondHandSongs I have in my own collection. Sometimes I have to accept the date of recording or issue from written information, since I have no way to independently verify that. But I would never suggest an add that I don't actually have.

Similarly, I am suggesting only what I own. Where I own a reissue and have print information about the original release, I give that information as well.

My question: Assuming you verify a suggested cover's existence, does it get added to the database as a matter of course in the fullness of time or do some covers -- for whatever reasons -- get rejected for inclusion. If the latter, is there uniform criteria for what makes it and what doesn't? If so, what is the criteria so I can avoid wasting time suggesting covers that will not be added.

Second question: This was submitted to your e-mail address and has yet to be answered: if a song is covered on an officially released live album by an artist -- and only on that live album -- does it meet the criteria for being included in the database.

larrydonline wrote

But I would never suggest an add that I don't actually have.

tsk wrote

Similarly, I am suggesting only what I own. Where I own a reissue and have print information about the original release, I give that information as well.

This is greatly appreciated since we get enthusiastic members transcribing lists from elsewhere that don’t meet our criteria or are just plain wrong in places. ANY medium (CD, LP reissues, for example) provides at least a starting place for finding the original medium.

For more obscure recordings you may have, a scan of the medium itself would be appreciated, and/or liner notes/back cover. It would tell us a lot:

-- as to whether it is indeed a cover by giving the songwriters

-- the approximate release date from the copyright date

-- the exact performer name and song title

-- whether the medium is not the original based on licensing notes

tsk wrote

My question: Assuming you verify a suggested cover's existence, does it get added to the database as a matter of course in the fullness of time or do some covers -- for whatever reasons -- get rejected for inclusion.

Everything goes in that is correct by our criteria (see below). A common problem that prevents (immediate) inclusion into the database is not finding information to establish a cover definitively, like a songwriter credit on a CD label or useful sound clip. Another is the lack of a piece of information as relatively minor as the release date. Some well-known songs are not in the database because we cannot establish whose version was first (first recording date is generally what we use there). Sometimes we find nothing and a query to the submitter goes unanswered; we will have to wait for the info to appear someday.

If the latter, is there uniform criteria for what makes it and what doesn't? If so, what is the criteria so I can avoid wasting time suggesting covers that will not be added.

The basic criteria we use is a “public performance” existing on media; specifics are still being worked out. Now there is a difference on what we allow for originals; for example, a Broadway musical can be used as an original source. However, for a cover, the stage performance must be on a recording to qualify.

Basically, a song on any commercial recording - LP, CD, tape, wax cylinder, etc. – is accepted. Internet releases are accepted, a “virtual” medium, if you will. Bootlegs are not accepted as a source, so songs from them are not accepted.

Commercial music-based DVDs/videotapes are accepted; that means concert recordings for the most part.

Traditional songs have no exact source, so we try to give some background to those songs as best we can and go on from there. Covers are accepted.

Privately circulated tapes sent to friends by an artist are out. Demo recordings are out. But if they’ve since been made available commercially, those songs are accepted.

Remixes are not accepted as covers per se. A cover might only exist as a remix or a specific remix may be the best-known version, and it therefore qualifies for the database.

Samples are accepted as such in the database.

There is probably something I missed here. Specific cases can be submitted to the "Discussion" board. Still, there is no editors' internal discussion about the playable chocolate Elvis record yet. . .

Second question: This was submitted to your e-mail address and has yet to be answered: if a song is covered on an officially released live album by an artist -- and only on that live album -- does it meet the criteria for being included in the database.

Live performances on commercial recordings are definitely accepted. If private tapes have been made into commercial recordings, those are accepted; Jimi Hendrix live material from earlier concerts keeps being released and requires changing the database entries, for example.

Bootlegs are out. Live performances on radio or TV are out (unless later commercially recorded); soon we’ll have to decide on a rule for commercial Youtube/internet releases of these.

Last updated by wally creek on 2009-01-20 23:22:57 UTC

Thanks for the response, wally creek. It is very helpful.

Conversion from forum topic to cover submission