Mismatch on song credits

Hello.

I'm asking for a doubt on an original I recently submitted.

The song Amor de mujer, originally by Paulina Rubio https://secondhandsongs.com/submission/136208 has at least one cover which I have submitted.

When looking for the composer and authors I first went to the ISWC portal, which I understand is the main source for credits. There they mention three authors: Marella Cayre, Consuelo Arango and Gianpietro Felisatti. I added the three of them.

However, the album itself mentions J.R. Florez as an author of this song and several others in the album.

In this case, should he be submitted as a composer following the information on the album? or should he be ommited due to the information at the ISWC?

Thanks.

Quote from Pencho15

In this case, should he be submitted as a composer following the information on the album? or should he be ommited due to the information at the ISWC?

Generally we follow the credits from the PROs. But you might want to make a note in your submission that the release credits an extra songwriter.

Quote from sebcat

Quote from Pencho15

In this case, should he be submitted as a composer following the information on the album? or should he be ommited due to the information at the ISWC?

Generally we follow the credits from the PROs. But you might want to make a note in your submission that the release credits an extra songwriter.

Thanks, I'll add the note.

We really need some uniformity here. I have many times suggested noting in the comments conflicting credits from different reliable sources (specifically liner notes, etc.), yet often received hostility towards those suggestions.

While I understand and support a default to the PROS for the "official" SHS credits, some consistency is needed on how to handle quality conflicting information.

Quote from VirileVagabond

We really need some uniformity here. I have many times suggested noting in the comments conflicting credits from different reliable sources (specifically liner notes, etc.), yet often received hostility towards those suggestions.

In my opinion, first party information in liner notes should weighed highly in reliability (i.e. if the liner notes say somebody on the album wrote the lyrics to a song, I believe that).

I would not trust them for authorship of originals covered (If the liner notes say the artist covered Hound Dog by Elvis, it would not affect my views of the authorship).

It appears that Flórez was the producer on the album, so it might be difficult for us to guess what was going on (whether he just took credit as a power move, or whether he had substantial artistic input in general, and whether he was later bought out etc). When a song is covered, it would seem to me that the contribution of the producer of the original is unlikely to be reflected in the covers, so I would lean toward sticking with the PROs in this case.

Quote from microtherion

Quote from VirileVagabond

We really need some uniformity here. I have many times suggested noting in the comments conflicting credits from different reliable sources (specifically liner notes, etc.), yet often received hostility towards those suggestions.

In my opinion, first party information in liner notes should weighed highly in reliability (i.e. if the liner notes say somebody on the album wrote the lyrics to a song, I believe that).

I would not trust them for authorship of originals covered (If the liner notes say the artist covered Hound Dog by Elvis, it would not affect my views of the authorship).

I agree with this, hence my original "reliable sources". To be clear and clarify with an example:

Believe it was a Blondie original, but the physical original release had different writing credits than the PROS and what's on site. What I used to typically do was check what reissues of the original release indicated as well as the credits on more recent compilations released by major labels. If the credit "mistake" was the same on the reissues and/or recent comps, this suggested to me that the credits may not be a mistake and was certainly worth noting in the comments under the work.

My efforts to get these comments added were usually met with hostility, so those efforts quickly became history. Again, I support defaulting to the PROS, only recommending comments in these situations to account for the discrepancy and possibly avoid error reports on the matter.

Quote from microtherion

It appears that Flórez was the producer on the album, so it might be difficult for us to guess what was going on (whether he just took credit as a power move, or whether he had substantial artistic input in general, and whether he was later bought out etc). When a song is covered, it would seem to me that the contribution of the producer of the original is unlikely to be reflected in the covers, so I would lean toward sticking with the PROs in this case.

Should I remove him from my submission then?

I am just learning the rules, so I'm ok if you tell me to just follow the PRO Sources, I just wanted to make sure as it is the first time I encounter a mismatch.

Take a look at the attachment from SGAE, which is confirmed by PRS:

Quote from Mark_Heyrman

Take a look at the attachment from SGAE, which is confirmed by PRS:

Yes I had found that info, my question was due to the information on the album itself.

I'll remove Florez from my submission.

However, the album itself mentions J.R. Florez as an author of this song and several others in the album.

Would you mind sharing the visual in question with us?

Quote from Bastien

However, the album itself mentions J.R. Florez as an author of this song and several others in the album.

Would you mind sharing the visual in question with us?

Sure.

Here it is, in the album LP, the image is from Discogs: https://www.discogs.com/es/release/6038449-Paulina-Rubio-La-Chica-Dorada/image/S…

Last edit: 2022-06-23 19:54:44 UTC by Pencho15

Quote from Pencho15

Quote from sebcat

Quote from Pencho15

In this case, should he be submitted as a composer following the information on the album? or should he be ommited due to the information at the ISWC?

Generally we follow the credits from the PROs. But you might want to make a note in your submission that the release credits an extra songwriter.

Thanks, I'll add the note.

I saw you applied this principle on other works as well, really good job 👍

Quote from Pencho15

Quote from Mark_Heyrman

Take a look at the attachment from SGAE, which is confirmed by PRS:

Yes I had found that info, my question was due to the information on the album itself.

I'll remove Florez from my submission.

This is the right decision.

And, just to be complete, sources for credits in authoritative order:

1. Performing Rights Organization
2. Library of Congress Catalog of Copyright Entries
3. Physical media

This is taken from https://secondhandsongs.com/page/Guidelines/UseOfSources/SourcesCredits