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the true origin of Stag-O-Lee-Blues (Bastien)

Stephan Koenig

Premium Member
Posts: 2174

Stephan Koenig @ 2010-03-14 16:28:15 UTC

from a late 1895 nursery rhyme called "Bad Man Stack-O-Lee"

Stag' Lee's real house hold name was LEE

SHELTON alias Stack Lee.

A traditional is not always a nursery rhyme...However a nursery rhyme could be from a traditional...

Stephan Koenig (March 14, 2010)

Last edit: 2010-04-14 12:52:43 UTC by Stephan Koenig

______
I wanna rock'n'roll all nite
Hashi akochchaka (rising sun)
Ghayat assa'adah (the supreme pleasure)
Stephan Koenig

tsk

Retired Editor
Posts: 6484

tsk @ 2010-03-17 15:48:12 UTC

Stephan:


I am actually very interested in tracking down origins of traditional songs. Your statement seems plausible, but can you provide an available source for the nursery rhyme? Or maybe a third-party analysis of the origins of the song that supports your statement. At some point, the site is going to allow all editors to revise all entries, and I would definitely like to include information about the origin of this song if I can verify it. Thanks, Tim

Stephan Koenig

Premium Member
Posts: 2174

Stephan Koenig @ 2010-03-18 21:58:16 UTC

No more than 2 days ago the link was

(PDF) "Labels en France Années 6 (1)" which included ABC-Paramount. It talked about the 1959 Lloyd Price's cover and it said "derived from a nursery rhyme called Bad Man Stack-O-Lee". However without any reference to 12/1895. As for me, it could not be an oral which maybe dates to 1903 seeing the recording of Long Cleve Reed (...) was cut a little bit earlier (circa 1900).

By now, this link is quite undiscoverable.

Searching the link, I saw this :

PDF Labels en France Années 6 (1)

(but this one is not the right page).

Sorry. I also posted corrections in my Skynetblog a few days ago...

Just wait... Wink http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=127217

And the French link: (but removed)

http://www.jukeboxmag.com/images/pages/227_p28.pdf

Stephan Koenig

Last edit: 2010-03-18 22:08:18 UTC by Stephan Koenig

______
I wanna rock'n'roll all nite
Hashi akochchaka (rising sun)
Ghayat assa'adah (the supreme pleasure)
Stephan Koenig

JMS

Premium Member
Posts: 660

JMS @ 2010-03-19 11:25:07 UTC

See below a copy of an article from the December 28 1895 edition of the St Louis Daily Globe-Democrat newspaper detailing the events that supposedly influenced the song(note that the article mis-spelt Shelton as Sheldon):

William Lyons, 25, colored, a levee hand, living at 1410 Morgan Street, was shot in the abdomen yesterday evening at 10 o'clock in the saloon of Bill Curtis, at Eleventh and Morgan Streets. by Lee Sheldon, also colored. Both parties, it seems, had been drinking and were feeling in exuberant spirits. Lyons and Sheldon were friends and were talking together. The discussion drifted to politics and an argument was started, the conclusion of which was that Lyons snatched Sheldon's hat from his head. The latter indignantly demanded its return. Lyons refused, and Sheldon drew his revolver and shot Lyons in the abdomen. Lyons was taken to the Dispensary, where his wounds were pronounced serious. He was removed to the city hospital. At the time of the shooting, the saloon was crowded with negroes. Sheldon is a carriage driver and lives at North Twelfth Street. When his victim fell to the floor Sheldon took his hat from the hand of the wounded man and coolly walked away. He was subsequently arrested and locked up at the Chestnut Street Station. Sheldon is also known as "Stag" Lee. see http://sites.google.com/site/thestaggerleefiles/

Stephan Koenig

Premium Member
Posts: 2174

Stephan Koenig @ 2010-03-19 15:38:36 UTC

I'm quite sure it is SHELTON not Sheldon...

William Lyons was born somewhere in Missouri in 1864.

He died on 15/26/1895. See his death certificate in att.

Thanks for all those links, Tim.

I will not change my opinion in any case even if what I've read is not always right (Lloyd Price: 1958 instead of 1959).

Feb.1959: On ABC-Paramount, Price' Stagger Lee, his R&B rewrite of folk tune The Ballad Of Stack-O-Lee, hits US #1 for 4 weeks.

Mar.1959: UK #7

Source: ROCK - Movers & Shakers, US, UK, CDN, 1991.

Anyway, it's very complicated Wink

Is a folk tune a nursery rhyme or a traditional ?

Last edit: 2010-04-14 12:58:28 UTC by Stephan Koenig

______
I wanna rock'n'roll all nite
Hashi akochchaka (rising sun)
Ghayat assa'adah (the supreme pleasure)
Stephan Koenig


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tsk

Retired Editor
Posts: 6484

tsk @ 2010-03-19 18:52:33 UTC

Thanks to you both for the responses. When the new system is in place that permits editors to change entries they didn't originate goes into effect, I intend to pursue this and add a commentary on the origin of the song.

Stephan Koenig

Premium Member
Posts: 2174

Stephan Koenig @ 2010-03-20 17:01:38 UTC

Great, Tim.

Happy weekend.

Stephan

______
I wanna rock'n'roll all nite
Hashi akochchaka (rising sun)
Ghayat assa'adah (the supreme pleasure)
Stephan Koenig

SlimD

Editor
Posts: 1210

SlimD @ 2011-10-31 20:35:51 UTC

(I just discovered this thread so my comments might be redundant at this time.)


I have a copy of Cecil Brown's book, "Stagolee Shot Billy". The entire book is devoted to the origin and recordings related to Stag-O-Lee. It's still in print.



http://www.amazon.com/Stagolee-Shot-Billy-Cecil-Brown/dp/0674016262/ref=sr_1_1?i…



Another good book concerning a single song, namely, The House of the Rising Sun, is Ted Anthony's "Chasing the Rising Sun: The Journey of an American Song".


http://www.amazon.com/Chasing-Rising-Sun-Journey-American/dp/0743278984/ref=sr_1…