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Multiple Artists - Same Name

walt

Editor
Posts: 5445

walt @ 2017-07-15 15:13:05 UTC

One thing though, what abbreviations do we use?

"GER" or "DE" or "DL" or "Germany". We should be consistent, no?

sebcat

Managing Editor
Posts: 5877

sebcat @ 2017-07-15 15:39:23 UTC

One thing though, what abbreviations do we use?

"GER" or "DE" or "DL" or "Germany". We should be consistent, no?

Moe suggested the two-letter ISO country codes. These work for me Smile

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-07-15 16:26:24 UTC

One thing though, what abbreviations do we use?

"GER" or "DE" or "DL" or "Germany". We should be consistent, no?

Moe suggested the two-letter ISO country codes. These work for me Smile


I like the objectiveness of Moe's ISO codes, but I'm not sure they are intuitive enough for SHS purposes. Something in general use e.g. US or UK is one thing, but "NL must be New Zealand right"? Using something not obvious likely doesn't meet our goal of avoiding have to look behind each same named artist in the drop down menu.


I would think some editor discretion would be okay.


[Scotland], [Scottish], [UK]

[France], [French]

[Netherlands], [Holland], [Dutch]

[Spain], [Catalonia], [Catalan]

[China], [Chinese], [Mandarin]

CarlDennis

Editor
Posts: 2709

CarlDennis @ 2017-07-16 15:05:42 UTC

I like the objectiveness of Moe's ISO codes, but I'm not sure they are intuitive enough for SHS purposes. Something in general use e.g. US or UK is one thing, but "NL must be New Zealand right"?

NL in ISO = The Netherlands

NZ in ISO = New Zealand

This is intuitive enough for me being Dutch...........

Thom

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-07-16 15:17:48 UTC

I like the objectiveness of Moe's ISO codes, but I'm not sure they are intuitive enough for SHS purposes. Something in general use e.g. US or UK is one thing, but "NL must be New Zealand right"?

NL in ISO = The Netherlands

NZ in ISO = New Zealand

This is intuitive enough for me being Dutch...........

Thom


Without looking, I figured NL and NZ as well. It was put in quotes for a reason and simply offered as a possible example that the ISO codes aren't necessarily intuitive enough.


Just got curious and looked up the ISO for Greece, expecting HL or HE, but it's the Anglo GR.

CarlDennis

Editor
Posts: 2709

CarlDennis @ 2017-07-16 15:23:04 UTC

For non-US people and more specifically the Europeans this is not a very intuitive problem since we see foreign cars crossing our countries all the time and as they have country signs, we just know that GR is Greece and PL is Poland. And D is Germany and B is Belgium.................

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-07-16 15:44:20 UTC

For non-US people and more specifically the Europeans this is not a very intuitive problem since we see foreign cars crossing our countries all the time and as they have country signs, we just know that GR is Greece and PL is Poland. And D is Germany and B is Belgium.................


Ahh, but Gringos and others more worthy use the site as well.....


I've always wondered why English uses the Latin Germany rather than the more likely Deutschland derivative. From that bastard William I suppose. Smile


Again, why use the Germanic D but the Angle/Latin GR for Greece, rather then the Hellenic HE or HL?


Why do the Egyptians retain the Hellenic derivative for its name rather tan something more native?



Anyway, I'm guessing on the less intuitive codes, people will have to look behind them, negating the purpose of the change.

Moebeus

Retired Editor
Posts: 175

Moebeus @ 2017-07-16 16:03:36 UTC

The wonderful thing about ISO codes is that they are internationally agreed upon codes that will confuse everyone the same, whether they are from the US and can't tell New Zealand and Holland apart, from China and can't read English good or just someone a little thick from Norway. I struggled myself with Switzerland being CH, but then you just get used to it. It's like Esperanto, but better!

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-07-16 16:25:14 UTC

The wonderful thing about ISO codes is that they are internationally agreed upon codes that will confuse everyone the same, whether they are from the US and can't tell New Zealand and Holland apart, from China and can't read English good or just someone a little thick from Norway. I struggled myself with Switzerland being CH, but then you just get used to it. It's like Esperanto, but better!


First, there is an ISO three letter code system as well that may lower confusion:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_3166-1_alpha-3



Second, unavoidable confusion is one thing, avoidable/reduced confusion is another. Standard English (the site's official language) country names would fall into the later category.



Third, seems we already have Esperanto demands, can Klingon and Romulan be too far behind? Being progressive and all that jazz, shall we go ahead and propose ISO code?


KL - Klingon

RM - Romulus

Moebeus

Retired Editor
Posts: 175

Moebeus @ 2017-07-16 16:37:48 UTC

You're confusing the ISO codes for country (ISO Alpha-2) and language (ISO 639-2/3). If you want to indicate that you have a work from your home country in US Klingon, this is what you use:

tlh-US

American English:

en-US

English as spoken in New Zealand:

en-NZ

In my own country Norway, we have three official languages. The one I use the most is called "Bokmål". The ISO code is

{=nb-NO}

...see, it all makes sense!

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-07-16 17:06:59 UTC

You're confusing the ISO codes for country (ISO Alpha-2) and language (ISO 639-2/3). If you want to indicate that you have a work from your home country in US Klingon, this is what you use:

tlh-US

American English:

en-US

English as spoken in New Zealand:

en-NZ

In my own country Norway, we have three official languages. The one I use the most is called "Bokmål". The ISO code is

{=nb-NO}

...see, it all makes sense!


No confusion here. The wiki page for the 3 letter ISO codes states they are country codes, created for the expressed purposes to reduce confusion from the 2 letter version. I simply used the Esperanto reference to segue into a joke. I have no vote on this matter, but it would appear to be the standard pick your poison choice:


a) A standardized, uniform, international 2/3 letter code that is objective, but will sometimes require "looking up" the correct code when setting up/revising an artist, will not always be readily understandable by the SHS users, and could be changed or abandoned in the future; or


b) A semi-standard (.e. Hungary or Hungaria), relatively uniform, official site language system that is readily understandable and likely will not change or be abandoned, but will sometimes require "looking up" proper spelling (those Czechs can be vowel challenged), be longer than 3 letters, and be less digital friendly.


I fully understand the costs and benefits of either choice.

Bastien

Manager
Posts: 29978

Bastien @ 2017-07-17 06:48:07 UTC

One thing though, what abbreviations do we use?

"GER" or "DE" or "DL" or "Germany". We should be consistent, no?

Moe suggested the two-letter ISO country codes. These work for me Smile

That's a very good (simple/clear/obvious) standardization suggestion Moe!

walt

Editor
Posts: 5445

walt @ 2017-07-17 09:11:41 UTC

ISO country codes.

That's a very good (simple/clear/obvious) standardization suggestion Moe!


Can somebody stack it in bookmarks - varia please?

sebcat

Managing Editor
Posts: 5877

sebcat @ 2017-07-17 10:38:18 UTC

ISO country codes.

That's a very good (simple/clear/obvious) standardization suggestion Moe!


Can somebody stack it in bookmarks - varia please?

Walt

I'm hoping we can update the guidelines once Bastien has checked with all editors. I'd suggest also including a link where we describe in the guidelines.

Sebastian

Moebeus

Retired Editor
Posts: 175

Moebeus @ 2017-07-17 13:00:33 UTC

I would also suggest to keep one master list sorted alphabetically (for quick search) and another one grouped by (at least) continent, for a better reading experience. That way the editors can bookmark one or both, depending on their preference.

VirileVagabond

Member
Posts: 5276

VirileVagabond @ 2017-08-06 16:27:20 UTC

Additional guidance needed?


It would seem to me that if [brackets] are needed, then they should be added to all artists of the same name, at least that would be the clear, objective rule.


For instance, if there was a band called the Rolling Stones from Moldavia, then the famous stones would be Rolling Stones [UK], notwithstanding that the later is the default band by that name. Otherwise, it could get iffy on more subjective situations.

sebcat

Managing Editor
Posts: 5877

sebcat @ 2018-03-10 23:13:26 UTC

Can this apply to artists as well as labels now? I had assumed it already did, as did Thom and Paul, but perhaps not yet?