"See the Conquering Hero Comes" / "Tochter Zion" / "Zion's Daughter"

I added Anna-Lena's 1970 Christmas album tonight and found the song "Tochter Zion" on it, which isn't currently on SHS. I did some more research on it and found quite a bit of info, but there are some things that I need confirmation on before it gets added.

I found some good info at ChoralWiki and here, but the two sites have some conflicting information...

The melody was written by Georg Friedrich Handel around 1746.

According to ChoralWiki and Wikipedia:

The melody was originally composed for Joshua (an oratorio written by Handel that debuted in 1748) and was so popular that it was inserted into Judas Maccabaeus as well (which debuted in 1746). It is commonly known as "See, the Conquering Hero Comes!".

The second site says that it was actually written for Judas Maccabaeus and inserted into Joshua in 1796 (which contradicts Wikipedia's info about Joshua premiering in 1748).

Both ChoralWiki and the second site I linked to above agree that the original "Tochter Zion" lyrics were written by Joachim Eschenburg, and the second site says the lyrics were later revised by Friedrich Ranke around 1820 (but ChoralWiki says they were added by Eschenburg in 1820).

So, a few questions...

1. What title do I use for the original work?

2. Were there actually lyrics to the original?

3. Do we have definitive info/agreement on who added the "Tochter Zion"?

As it stands it looks like we can get an original and at least 3 adaptations out of this:

1. Handel's original melody (and any lyrics associated with it)

2. The second usage of the melody by Handel (since it appears there either weren't originally lyrics or the second usage had different lyrics)

3. "Tochter Zion"

4. "Zion's Daughter", a big hit for Boney M in the early 80s

Last edit: 2018-05-21 23:43:34 UTC by Oldiesmann

It looks like something has gone wrong with the translation in the second site. Lower down the page, the Vietnamese text says:

Phần nhạc của bài thánh ca Tochter Zion là một giai điệu do George Friedrich Händel sáng tác vào năm 1746 cho ca khúc See, The Conqu’ring Hero Comes trong oratorio Judas Maccabaeus. Do đó, trong nhiều cuốn thánh ca, giai điệu của bài hát này đã được biết dưới tên là giai điệu Maccabaeus. Sau khi trường ca Judas Maccabaeus được phổ biến, vì giai điệu của bài thánh ca See, The Conqu’ring Hero Comes được nhiều người yêu thích cho nên nhạc sĩ George Friedrich Händel đã dùng lại giai điệu này trong oratorio Joshua, được sáng tác vào năm 1747. Năm 1796 - đúng 50 năm sau khi giai điệu Maccabaeus được giới thiệu cho công chúng - nhạc sĩ Ludwig Van Beethoven đã soạn 12 biến tấu cho piano và cello dựa trên giai điệu này.

Which looks to me that this site agrees that Joshua was composed in 1747. The English text is an exact copy from Google Translate, which doesn't mention the 1747 date at all. There is something in the last sentence in that para that is confusing Google Translate (if you remove the last sentence, Google Translate will mention 1747).

Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Maccabaeus_%28Handel%29 ) says that Judas Maccabaeus debuted on 1 April 1747. It also says that "See, the Conquering Hero Comes!" was inserted into Judas Maccabaeus in approx 1751 so it was a later addition. So the first performance would be in Joshua, 9 March 1748.

Judging by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_%28Handel%29 , the original did have lyrics and they were written by Thomas Morell. Probably the title was indeed "See the conqu'ring hero comes". I have no clue what wiki means by "Trio SSA" but I guess it might be some kind of reference to the original performers.

I suspect your adaptations 1 and 2 are the same.

Choralwiki says "Johann Joachim Eschenburg (other sources attribute it to Friedrich Heinrich Ranke)" so it might not be possible to get a definitive answer on this part.

The tune also got very popular as an Eastern hymn, in France, England and The Netherlands.

In 1884, Edmond L. Budry used Handel's tune and wrote words for them, which he titled "A Toi la Gloire." It is reported that he was inspired to write it after the death of his first wife, Marie de Vayenborg in Lausanne, Switzerland. It was later published in French hymn book, Chants Evangéliques.

The hymn was first translated from French into English by Richard B. Hoyle in 1923. He titled it "Thine Be the Glory".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thine_Be_the_Glory

In the 1950's Jan Willem Schulte Nordholt wrote Dutch lyrics for the tune, basing his lyrics on Budry's 1884 French adaptation. The Dutch version was titled "U Zij De Glorie".

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_zij_de_glorie

See the Conqu'ring Hero Comes has been added. Will work on adding the other adaptations shortly.

I still have no idea who to credit for "Tochter Zion". The article on the song from the German Wikipedia only credits Friedrich Ranke and makes no mention of Eschenburg, while other sources only credit Eschenburg and don't mention Ranke at all. Should I just pick one of the two and leave a note in the comments about it?

Quote from baggish

Judging by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_%28Handel%29 , the original did have lyrics and they were written by Thomas Morell. Probably the title was indeed "See the conqu'ring hero comes". I have no clue what wiki means by "Trio SSA" but I guess it might be some kind of reference to the original performers.

According to the original libretto from 1748 it was sung by a Chorus of Youths, a Chorus of Virgins and a Full Chorus.

54. Chorus

Youths

See, the conqu'ring hero comes!

Sound the trumpets, beat the drums.

Sports prepare, the laurel bring,

Songs of thriumph to him sing.

Virgins

See the godlike youth advance!

Breathe the flutes, and lead the dance;

Myrtle wreaths, and roses twine,

To deck the hero's brow divine.

Full Chorus

See, the conqu'ring hero comes!

Sound the trumpets, beat the drums.

Sports prepare, the laurel bring,

Songs of triumph to him sing.

See. . . da capo

http://opera.stanford.edu/iu/libretti/joshua.htm

There is indeed no clarity about the composer.

Most mentioned though is Friedrich Ranke.

I would mention Eschenburg in the comments as you proposed.

JoJo greets

Quote from Oldiesmann

I still have no idea who to credit for "Tochter Zion". The article on the song from the German Wikipedia only credits Friedrich Ranke and makes no mention of Eschenburg, while other sources only credit Eschenburg and don't mention Ranke at all. Should I just pick one of the two and leave a note in the comments about it?

You could pick both of them and write a comment...

Added Tochter Zion, freue dich with Anna-Lena's performance.

Now we need to determine what credits to use for Boney M's version. GEMA only credits Fred Jay, but the label also credits Frank Frian and Helmut Rulofs.

À toi la gloire, O Ressuscité! as written by Swiss hymn writer Edmond-Louis Budry has now been added to the database.

And also Thine Be the Glory with lyrics in English by Richard B. Hoyle is now in the database

Zion's Daughter is now on site as well.

U zij de glorie is now also on site...........

And we're back to what kicked off this whole thing with a Swedish adaptation recorded by Anna-Lena in 1972. Dotter Sion, fröjda dig