News

Interconnections with External Databases

2018-07-16 09:11:24 UTC

Insiders are already very much aware: As a database SecondHandSongs is hugely crossreferenced with other external databases. To give you an idea:

  • 86.896 releases are linked to Discogs
  • 85.718 performances are linked to The Echo Nest
  • 63.733 works are linked to ISWC
  • 62.365 performances are linked to Spotify
  • 45.862 works are linked to JASRAC
  • 37.413 artists are linked to MusicBrainz

... and the list goes on and on & the number of links are growing every day. View the full stats.

If you're interested in using these links for a project, feel free to contact us.


Attachments:

2018-07-20 22:36:28 UTC

Thanks for the brilliant update.

There's bound to be more.


Consider this read. Happy

2018-07-23 13:23:17 UTC

Good to know. I tend to add Spotify links as I use that service myself. Google Play occasionally but not nearly as much. I know there are others? How much should we be focusing on this when we add releases?

2018-07-27 06:18:06 UTC

Great, but can anybody explain what The Echo Nest is? And why it is important, that SHS is linked to it?

Thom

2018-07-31 05:20:21 UTC

How much should we be focusing on this when we add releases?

Currently the most important are, in order of importance: PRO's, Discogs, Youtube, Spotify.

2018-07-31 05:26:18 UTC

can anybody explain what The Echo Nest is? And why it is important, that SHS is linked to it?

From Wikipedia:

The Echo Nest is a music intelligence and data platform for developers and media companies.

On March 6, 2014 Spotify announced that they had acquired The Echo Nest.

The data powered music solutions for customers such as MTV, Island Def Jam, BBC, MOG, Warner Music Group, eMusic, Spotify, Rdio, Clear Channel, VEVO, Nokia and Thumbplay.

The Echo Nest was acquired on March 6, 2014 by music streaming service Spotify.

The music intelligence agency functions to help Spotify curate personalized music recommendations that are driven by algorithms. The Echo Nest is the driving force behind the playlists professionally curated on Spotify. To generate individualized Discover Weekly playlists as well as recommend suggestions in the ‘Discover’ section of Spotify’s home page, individualized for every subscriber, the Echo Nest collects data on a user’s listening habits and uses it to predict what music they will enjoy the most.

In summary, it's a huge music database used by main players in the entertainment business. You don't know it because they apart from their website they don't have any B2C products.

2018-07-31 11:54:40 UTC

Good Q, Thom... And for SHS, Echo Nest is just another source like the others? Or is it of any other value?

2018-08-05 18:19:48 UTC

You don't know it because they apart from their website they don't have any B2C products.

Well, thanks, Bastien, for the explanation, but here comes the next question "what are B2C products............"

Some of us are normal people leading normal lives and used to normal abbreviations.

Thom

2018-08-05 19:22:57 UTC

I used my brain and came up with the solution: business-to-consumer is not what The Echo Nest is into.............

Thanks for the education permanente. Smile

2018-09-02 03:12:17 UTC

First of all (Bastien): A very big share of those cumulated millions(!) of cross-referencing links were/are being imported automatically without even being noticed by editors. In many cases, those also cause double but not identical linkings to sources. F. ex. Echo Nest derives a link to a discogs entry (not for the 1st release) parallel to an editor's manually added one (the 1st).

Although this procedure is probably much more useful for works (and surely appreciated by myself, though others may not care), it by far doesn't guarantee that the automatically derived links to other copyright societies than entered by editors really match - and result in messages like "SHS has additional credit X" etc.

The above also shows the vulnerability of allowing and relying on importing data without preceding examination...

Echo Nest links have been automatically imported for quite some time, already. This, since far more recently, is also the case for Spotify.

As for Echo Nest, it may seem to make sense to a certain extend, at least as long as editors didn't have to (or don't) add external links as sources. The frustrating thing is that Echo Nest is allowed to import additional links in the background and we only find out when adding additional links to sources backing our entries.

Also as those links often don't match as well as our own ones - we invested time on researching - and are already secretly being imported during our own adding process, we should definitely be enabled to evaluate and agree to them or not before they get imported (similar to discogs).

As for Spotify: Is there any logical reason for automatically importing links (no user sees, anyway) to a commercial download portal? As those are being imported without our consent and in no way back up the detailed data we spend time on researching and adding, this procedure actually should be stopped asap.

This also as Spotify listings hardly ever really provide reliable and detailed data, rather to the opposit. F.ex., release dates (if stated at all) go for when having been added to Spotify, no matter if the release was in 1968, etc. To a certain extend, that also goes for iTunes.

2018-09-02 03:28:01 UTC

I used my brain and came up with the solution: business-to-consumer is not what The Echo Nest is into... Smile

According to Bastien's wikipedia quote, Echo Nest these days mainly functions as a backing-up database for Spotify, and, readlng between the lines, was mainly bought to prevent others from using it as such...

Just a PS: B2B = business to business and C2C = consumer to consumer Grin. I don't think C2B is a term, yet, but is in fact already happening lots more than most (want to) know....

Last edit: 2018-09-02 03:34:24 UTC by camembert electrique

2018-09-02 03:43:28 UTC

Maybe I should add to the 'essay' (which only covers a few aspects) that most discogs and whosampled, quite some musicbrainz and probably all 45cat, 78rpm, wikipedia, aanitearkisto.fi, SMDB, RYM, allmusic etc. referencing links were added by editors as a result of partly extensive research work...?

2018-09-02 08:19:59 UTC

I think that's correct, Erik. In fact, I've discovered a couple of links that have since been added to the bookmarks. One of them has been integrated with SHS, as well.

2018-09-02 19:58:39 UTC

B2B = business to business and C2C = consumer to consumer Grin. I don't think C2B is a term, yet, but is in fact already happening lots more than most (want to) know....

A friend of mine is trying to popularize a subset of B2B he calls W2W: Weasel-to-weasel Grin

2018-09-06 04:06:42 UTC

One more exemplary case for the 'problematic' interconnections (often = automatic adding of links):

Bastien (let's call it) happened to in the editor notes for an artist I added two-and-a-half years ago find an https link to an according wikipedia page. Straightaway, he added it as an external link and immediately also deleted it from the editor notes.

So far so good (or not), but 50 minutes later, discogs automatically and additionally imported the same link, now as an http (not https) address. And 20 minutes after that, Bastien 'deduced' a link to discogs' artist page...

What confuses me, here, is that, in spite of an already existing ('secure') link for the very same wikipedia page, an ('insecure') link could be imported automatically from discogs - 20 minutes before Bastien linked to their artist page.

See Thore Skogman

It seems this is just a minor example for the vulnarablity of interconnecting with resp. automatically deriving links from external data bases.

Originally adding and/or managing editors never being notified of any automatically derived external links etc. (and logically not being enabled to double check), there is hardly any control whatsoever over what's being 'sucked' from elsewhere.

I have therefore issued https://secondhandsongs.com/trac/ticket/2870#ticket

2018-09-21 08:34:57 UTC

First of all etc...

This is not the place for a discussion, this is a public news post. Its message is directed at a far larger audience than just the editor team. If you disagree with decisions or strategy, please do so on a more appropriate board.