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Bastien

Manager
Posts: 27090

Bastien @ 2019-03-04 20:17:06 UTC

Ok. Feel free to create a ticket.

sebcat

Editor
Posts: 4797

sebcat @ 2019-03-04 22:03:21 UTC

Ok. Feel free to create a ticket.

Okay - I had added the suggestion to the original ticket yesterday. But I created a new ticket now #2949.

sebcat

Editor
Posts: 4797

sebcat @ 2019-03-04 22:04:25 UTC

2. I'd consider displaying more than just one performance in each category. There's enough space on the page.

I'd like to keep just one, as I see each header as a future entry to a new page giving the full ranking of the tag in question.

How frequently will the performances under each highlights heading change?

dudek

Editor
Posts: 349

dudek @ 2019-03-05 08:48:39 UTC

Read.

Nap

Editor
Posts: 1392

Nap @ 2019-03-05 23:12:27 UTC

Read

camembert electrique

Editor
Posts: 4832

camembert electrique @ 2019-03-06 03:29:37 UTC

In addition to https://secondhandsongs.com/message/190804 : I think I added each of the 51 versions of Den första gång, and I didn't highlight any of them.

Nevertheless, Den første gang jeg så dig - 'popular'(?, by which criteria?) - and Den första gång jag såg dig - recent(? Nearly all versions were added after that one!) - are shown as highlights. So, I reckon those two were as randomly created as usual (before).

However, (automatically) showing most recently added versions is actually a very good idea (as long as true...) and would be a great feature - https://secondhandsongs.com/trac/ticket/2950#ticket

Quentin

Editor
Posts: 3427

Quentin @ 2019-03-06 11:54:55 UTC

A website devoted to music with people discussing about music... let's see how it goes! Smile

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坐低飲啖茶,食個包

walt

Editor
Posts: 5091

walt @ 2019-03-06 12:29:12 UTC

A website devoted to music with people discussing about music... let's see how it goes! Smile


I do like the idea of highlighting covers, but what we don't need in the future is endless & pointless discussions we have already in this thread.


Unless, I don't get the whole concept, I would like very much that SHS deletes all subjective tags like "more famous than original" & "definitive" for this reason.

Jeff Chamberlain

Certified Contributor
Posts: 1158

Jeff Chamberlain @ 2019-03-06 14:06:53 UTC

C. E., did you mean "most recently added," or "most recent?" The former is covered by "latest submissions" (a/k/a "recently added covers"), yes?

______
JC

DashBoardDJ856

Editor
Posts: 1803

DashBoardDJ856 @ 2019-03-06 15:44:27 UTC

I still say we should open a SHS room on plug-dj, we everyone can play songs and chat in real time!

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Well now, aint that a fine "howdy doody".

VirileVagabond

Certified Contributor
Posts: 4004

VirileVagabond @ 2019-03-06 16:00:12 UTC

Unless, I don't get the whole concept, I would like very much that SHS deletes all subjective tags like "more famous than original" & "definitive" for this reason.


While I agree with "more famous", as explained earlier "definitive" shouldn't be that subjective. Below is a post I made in a related thread (no reactions as usual):


Well, if I was pressed to provide my overall thoughts on the current tags and to further my preference to be few, concise and materially informative:

https://secondhandsongs.com/topic/74760


1) a cappella seems an obvious tag, as this is a niche genre. One could argue it's the opposite but equivalent to instrumental;

2) acoustic is really a genre and doesn't add much. Why not "metal", bluegrass" and reggae" as well? I would delete this one to narrow the tag options;

3) definitive was my suggestion so I'm not objective. My goal was to flag those performances that put either the work or a particular arrangement "on the map". Most likely a "definitive" performance is always also a hit song but not vice versa (so I wouldn't merge them). I see this as a rarely used but materially informative tag;

4) demo seems unnecessary and not materially informative. Once a demo recording is officially released, is it still really a demo? I would delete this tag and add such info in the public comments to keep the list of tags few in number;

5) editor's pick seems obviously subjective yet harmless enough. I would suggest that this tag be mutually exclusive to tags definitive, hit song and more famous than original, as this tag should be limited to lessor know covers that the editors find particularly good or otherwise noteworthy;

6) eurovision is a non-American thing, so I'm not sure how materially informative this is. If this tag is limited to only original works performed at Eurovision, perhaps the comments is the better place for this info to keep the number of tags few. If this tag includes covers as well, then I would suggest combining with TV talent show;

7) hit song seems an obvious tag, with allowances for some subjectivity;

8) live seems on obvious tag, and one for which I pushed with the assumption that the tags would be listed on the "Versions" tab. Absent that visualization, this info might as well be in the comments;

9) mash-up confuses me as to need. Why is this any different than a medley? Wouldn't all the mashed works be indicated on the performance's page? I would delete this one as unnecessary;

10) more famous than original seems unnecessary. When would this tag be used over definite, hit song or even editor's pick? I would delete;

11) scat / vocalese should be limited by the system to performances coded as an instrumental. I would suggest that the tag be scat/vocalese/minimal lyrics to also cover those mostly instrumentals with only a few vocals from the original;

12) TV talent show seems not materially informative to me. Why would such a live recording be differentiated from a (e.g.) VH1 Unplugged recording? Either delete this tag and move info to the comments or merge with eurovision as recommended above;



Additional observations:


Shouldn't eurovision be capitalized?


I continue to suggest heavily rearranged as a tag. Some covers have arrangements making the work either almost or entirely unrecognizable (at least to my ears). Flagging such performance is clear value added in my book.

camembert electrique

Editor
Posts: 4832

camembert electrique @ 2019-03-07 03:50:00 UTC

C. E., did you mean "most recently added," or "most recent?" The former is covered by "latest submissions" (a/k/a "recently added covers"), yes?

Latest submissions/recently added covers show all recent additions to the database/by editor(s) respectively. As far as I know, 'regular users' can't sort work related additions by date of entry, though (can they?).

So, my proposal goes for: on works and versions pages to the public showing the most recenty added version as a fixed one of the two or three (so far randomly) highlighted

Does this answer your question?.

Jeff Chamberlain

Certified Contributor
Posts: 1158

Jeff Chamberlain @ 2019-03-07 04:09:52 UTC

I can sort "recent additions" by date of entry, using the "added on" toggle at "newly added covers." That's not quite the same as your proposal to list the "most recently added" entries for a particular song/work at the site of that work/song.

______
JC

camembert electrique

Editor
Posts: 4832

camembert electrique @ 2019-03-07 06:47:00 UTC

I do like the idea of highlighting covers, but what we don't need in the future is endless & pointless discussions we have already in this thread.

Unless, I don't get the whole concept, I would like very much that SHS deletes all subjective tags like "more famous than original" & "definitive" for this reason.

Core answer: I absolutely agree to the above. Tags like 'live', 'a-capella', etc. are objective and case related information, though, and in that respect justified. Most suggested tags seem to be aiming at saving editors from case related explainations and commenting, though.

As for some of VV's points:

'Acoustic' is an objective evaluation, but mostly self-explainatory from the additions (and even more so if editors add brief comments to releases they enter) - not needed.

'Definitive': see Walt above.

'Demo': remains a demo(nstrational) recording, even if officially released much later - a matter for the comment section.

'Editor's (or rather editors'?) pick: This would likely fit better as one of the three highlighted versions on work/versions pages.

'Eurovision': not relevant to the rest of the world (non-American is not the point...). Also, if 'Eurovision' was a tag, we'd have to tag all other contests (and their many derivates), too. Makes no sense -> to be commented case-wise. This even more goes for 'talent show' - 98+ % of contestants remain less than one-hit wonders, anyway, so irrelevant and a typical case of personal preferences.

'Hit song': in the 1st place, a song is a work (so the term is far from exact). Marking successful versions thereof as hits would need to be backed by evidence for territory- or worldwide chart positions, verified sales figures et al., which doesn't work for click-tagging - again: comment.

'Mash-up': too case related and matter of individual interpretation, except for obviously Beatallica et al., so no need for tagging.

'Scat/Vocalese': once again to be commented for intrumentals including vocals-as-instrument' appearances.

camembert electrique

Editor
Posts: 4832

camembert electrique @ 2019-03-07 06:51:45 UTC

I can sort "recent additions" by date of entry, using the "added on" toggle at "newly added covers." That's not quite the same as your proposal to list the "most recently added" entries for a particular song/work at the site of that work/song.

Being a verified contributor (or whatever the term is), you can... but I'd like any user to see which was the very last added version of a song at first sight. Know what I mean?

VirileVagabond

Certified Contributor
Posts: 4004

VirileVagabond @ 2019-03-07 13:13:00 UTC

Perhaps a better way to reach more consensus is to look at tags vs. comments from a different angle and group all existing/proposed tags as helpful, interesting or explanatory. A helpful tag allows a user to visually filter out/in performances. Interesting is like trivia associated with a performance/work. Explanatory is designed to fill in grey areas to support the entry's current indexing.


Tags should be limited to helpful. What viable tags would I or another user that I can reasonably imagine like to see in a dedicated column on the Versions tab? Live, definitive, editor's pick, hit.


Trivia related tags (e.g. demo, eurovision) should be moved to the comments.


Explanatory comments are actually quite important in my view, as I see them as a way to avoid error reports on close calls. For instance if I hear some minimal lyrics in something coded as an instrumental, I may file a report unless those vocals are already noted in the comments.

Bastien

Manager
Posts: 27090

Bastien @ 2019-03-07 15:34:25 UTC

Okay - I had added the suggestion to the original ticket yesterday.

That ticket was closed so probability close 0 it was ever going to be processed Smile

Bastien

Manager
Posts: 27090

Bastien @ 2019-03-07 15:35:32 UTC

How frequently will the performances under each highlights heading change?

Depends on the algorithm of the header in question.