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Modřanská polka/Beer Barrel Polka And Adaptions

VirileVagabond

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Posts: 3919

VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-02 17:16:13 UTC

Due to a find which will be noted below, looking at Modřanská polka and Beer Barrel Polka …. Based on what I see on site, the root work is an instrumental which was quickly adapted by adding English lyrics followed almost immediately by a German version. The other languages came sporadically and relatively much later.


This begs the question, do each of the language adaptions have independent lyrics or are they all based on the original lyrics (either English or German)? How these adaptions are currently visualized are independent lyrics, but I find this hard to believe. I suspect that the correct treatment is the root instrumental, then the first adaption with lyrics, and the remaining adaptions are translations of those lyrics.


What brought me here is a likely Italian version by Dea Garbaccio. I have been unable to readily find an original release and I haven't listened to it yet, but can be found on:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-La-Guerra/release/6045632

Rosamunda (Beer Barrel Polka) · Dea Garbaccio

Dea garbaccio at her best (feat. Alfredo Clerici, Giovanni Turchetti, Oscar Carboni, Nella Colombo, Aldo Donà, Giovanni Vallarino, Trio Lescano, Ernesto Bonino, Gigi Beccaria)

℗ Unknown Pleasures Sound

Released on: 2013-03-14

Author: Vejvoda

Composer: Vejvoda

Music Publisher: D.R








If this post attracts no interest and/or an editor doesn't take an interest and add, etc., if the lead pans out I will eventually submit by normal means....


Related submission: https://secondhandsongs.com/case/108187

jojo

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jojo @ 2019-05-03 08:11:55 UTC

Based on what I see on site, the root work is an instrumental which was quickly adapted by adding English lyrics followed almost immediately by a German version. The other languages came sporadically and relatively much later.


Even before the German and English adaption, in 1934 the root work got Czech lyrics by Vašek Zeman



One of the first, if not the first, recorded, Czech vocal versions is from 1935.


https://www.supraphonline.cz/album/5278-historie-psana-selakem-ultraphon-duo-i-k…


You can listen to this version here:


https://archive.org/details/78_skoda-lasky_ultraphon-duo-jana-hofmanna-vva-praha…


https://www.discogs.com/Ultraphon-Duo-%C5%A0koda-L%C3%A1sky-Pod-Na%C5%A1%C3%ADm-…


The label shown on the link above is a re-release, after the song became famous in Germany and than the USA.


On the next link you can see the original labelscan.


http://www.selaky.cz/Historie.html






BTW here's the ORIGINAL instrumental version from 1928.


https://www.discogs.com/Bene%C5%A1ova-Dechov%C3%A1-Hudba-Zbraslavska-Polka-Modra…



JoJo greets

Last edit: 2019-05-03 08:23:20 UTC by jojo

VirileVagabond

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VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-03 14:55:15 UTC

Taking JJ's info into account (high confidence based on experience), we don't have the earliest root work instrumental performance (1928) nor the earliest root lyrical performance (Czech 1935) on site. My observations re: visualization remain, except now all of the other language adaptions a likely translated from the original Czech.


Am I to understand that all of the post original, translated lyrics are about puppies, rainbows, love, etc., or are they all about drinking beer and having fun?

VirileVagabond

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VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-04 04:52:57 UTC

The English lyrics are completely unrelated to the original Czech lyrics (see attachment - lyrics from here).


I don't read or understand Czech, so I can't say about those.


I just listened to recordings by Andrews Sisters, Frank Yankovic and Those Darn Accordions! and I didn't hear your English lyrics anywhere....

Oldiesmann

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Oldiesmann @ 2019-05-05 18:05:01 UTC

I don't speak Czech either. The English in the image I posted is a translation of the original Czech lyrics courtesy of Google.

VirileVagabond

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VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-05 21:59:40 UTC

As a speaker of English, German, Czech (and others)

I can testify that the lyrics are independent and all have different plots


Okay, let's assume that these three adaptions came out near simultaneously and are independent. What of the later adaptions? Why would the (assuming) Italian adaption above be listed with the English sub-title as a descriptor? "Rosamunda (Beer Barrel Polka)"


I suppose that the release could have been marketed to an international audience, so they defaulted to the English version regardless of any lyrical ancestry?

Oldiesmann

Editor
Posts: 1001

Oldiesmann @ 2019-05-06 01:32:50 UTC

All that means is that "Beer Barrel Polka" was popular in Italy at some point. SHS guidelines say that it shouldn't be considered an adaptation of "Beer Barrel Polka" unless the lyrics are similar.


  • By default an adaptation in a new language is linked to the root work
    • Example: Zoals gewoonlijk by Raymond van het Groenewoud is an adaptation of the root work, Comme d'habitude
  • Except if the subject of the lyrics are very close to another adaptation, and remarkably different from the root work.
    • Example: A mi manera by Augusto Algueró My Wayon of the Paul Anka adaptation My Way , as it's about leading your life the way you want (=Paul Anka lyrics), and not about a couple that is falling apart (=Claude François lyrics).

VirileVagabond

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VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-06 01:59:18 UTC

All that means is that "Beer Barrel Polka" was popular in Italy at some point. SHS guidelines say that it shouldn't be considered an adaptation of "Beer Barrel Polka" unless the lyrics are similar.


You are preaching to the choir and what I have been saying all along in this and earlier threads on the general matter.


When I started this thread, I had the belief based on what I currently see on site and the nature of this work that all translations would be based on some original lyrics regarding barrels of beer. The initial responses then suggested that there were several lyricists who independently created lyrics for a pre-existing instrumental work.


Now the question is whether lyricists continued to create independent lyrics for other languages or did one of the early adaptions rise to such prominence that all later adaptions were based on that prominent version?

amk

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Posts: 3

amk @ 2019-05-06 07:53:20 UTC

While I am not certain how to put a line between adaptation/translation, let me assist with some links and pointers, mainly from czech wikipedia:

https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_l%C3%A1sky


Music originates from 1927, final version 1929

First lyrics appeared in 1934, "Škoda lásky" by Vašek Zeman about a girls broken hearth.

Second german lyrics in 1938 by Will Glahé a love song praising a girl called Rosamunde.

Then in 1939 english lyrics by Lew Brown a Wladimir Timm as Beer Barrel Polka, about fun around a beer in garden


During the war there was another text sung by US Navy:



Success of English beer version inspired another czech version:

"Pojď sem s tím sudem", very loose translation, but keeps the idea:


Youtube shows also another version about beers, with different lyrics, almost a parody:



Dutch version "Rats, kuch en bonen" is a mobilisation song about live in the army:

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rats,_kuch_en_bonen



French version "Frida oum papa" has another subject, about a german girl in France, baptised in beer...


As a song of FC Marseilles "Ce soir on vous mets le feu" - Tonight we put you on fire.



I could not find any version sung in spanish, but two different lyrics, both strictly limited to praise the beverage:

https://letradecancion.com.mx/el-barrilito_j-timm.html

https://www.musica.com/letras.asp?letra=1616040



The italian version performed Dea Garbaccio mentioned in this thread shares the plot of the german Rosamunde:

https://lyricstranslate.com/en/rosamunda-rosamunda.html




Wikipedia further reports that the Vejvoda family registers 14 different titles and 27 different lyrics in many languages.

Czech radio page reports 36 versions in 15 languages:

https://www.radio.cz/es/rubrica/notas/se-conmemoran-los-100-anos-del-nacimiento-…


Another cover by Slovak group Senzus, with original czech lyrics:


Hope this helps...

Last edit: 2019-05-06 07:58:23 UTC by amk

walt

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Posts: 5020

walt @ 2019-05-06 16:45:43 UTC

One of the first, if not the first, recorded, Czech vocal versions is from 1935.


BTW here's the ORIGINAL instrumental version from 1928.


Added both originals. Thanks a lot, Joop.


I suppose you don't have a recording date of Modranska polka?

Or any info on the "Beneš brass band"?

walt

Editor
Posts: 5020

walt @ 2019-05-06 16:54:26 UTC

Now the question is whether lyricists continued to create independent lyrics for other languages or did one of the early adaptions rise to such prominence that all later adaptions were based on that prominent version?


Maybe important to you, but not for SHS. Our guideline here is very clear: all lyrical works are considered adaptations of the instrumental root work (Modranska polka), except if they are undoubtedly built on a former set. The presence of beer only is not enough. Smile

Last edit: 2019-05-06 17:07:46 UTC by walt

VirileVagabond

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Posts: 3919

VirileVagabond @ 2019-05-06 18:47:22 UTC

Now the question is whether lyricists continued to create independent lyrics for other languages or did one of the early adaptions rise to such prominence that all later adaptions were based on that prominent version?


Maybe important to you, but not for SHS. Our guideline here is very clear: all lyrical works are considered adaptations of the instrumental root work (Modranska polka), except if they are undoubtedly built on a former set. The presence of beer only is not enough. Smile


I know. SHS is just dead wrong with such a guideline, tho "presence of beer" doesn't exactly illustrate my position on the matter. I regularly find non-English recordings with English sub-titles suggesting what lyrics/works are intended to be translated contrary to how SHS treats. Different treatment in my notes vs. SHS causes complications, but that's my issue....

David King

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David King @ 2019-05-06 21:01:53 UTC

Given my specialty here, I run into it all the time. I have expressed concerns about the matter, as well.

jojo

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Posts: 1123

jojo @ 2019-05-07 10:14:24 UTC

One of the first, if not the first, recorded, Czech vocal versions is from 1935.


BTW here's the ORIGINAL instrumental version from 1928.


Added both originals. Thanks a lot, Joop.


I suppose you don't have a recording date of Modranska polka?

Or any info on the "Beneš brass band"?


As a matter of fact I do have and I have to correct myself.

I found out the Esta is a sub-label of Supraphon and started business in 1930.


http://proxy.web-oke.nl/index.php?qx=aHR0cHM6Ly9jcy5tLndpa2lwZWRpYS5vcmcvd2lraS9…


https://www.discogs.com/label/219441-ESTA


So the Benešova Dechová Hudba release on the Esta label can't be from 1928.


Than I found this link with all (?) of the releases of the Benešova Dechová Hudba


https://www.usti-nad-labem.cz/images/archiv_knihy/sbirka-zvukovych-dokumentu_15.…


And we see ESTA 7329 is dated 1934, still the oldest instrumental version.


And about the adaptation discussion, in this case it's clear to me it was the music and not the lyrics that triggered the various vocal cover-versions.


JoJo greets

walt

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walt @ 2019-05-07 12:55:00 UTC

As a matter of fact I do have and I have to correct myself.


JoJo greets


Thanks again for your trouble (and links). Adjusted release year on Esta 78rpm.

amk

Member
Posts: 3

amk @ 2019-05-08 06:26:06 UTC

What about all the versions I posted in this thread? Can they get listed in the entry or shall I submit them as covers one by one?