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sebcat

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sebcat @ 2019-05-31 18:52:37 UTC

Surprised that the most famous song of Cuban composer, Frank Domínguez, is not yet in the database. I understand that it was written in 1957. Does anyone know who first recorded it?

sebcat

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sebcat @ 2019-06-01 11:03:03 UTC

Dany, Joop - maybe one of you can help?

baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-01 11:38:31 UTC

Don't know if it's the first or even the first by him, but it looks like Frank Domínguez himself released it on a 1959 album "Frank Domínguez canta sus canciones", http://latinpop.fiu.edu/SECCION02D.pdf page 82.

If you search from http://latinpop.fiu.edu/ , several undated 78s will pop up, followed by a couple from 1956, one from 1957 and one from 1959. I don't know if the undated ones can be found in the pdf discographies which are indexed at http://latinpop.fiu.edu/downloadfiles2.html .

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sebcat

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sebcat @ 2019-06-01 19:00:50 UTC

Thanks Jon. I've added the work and Dominguez's version - Tú me acostumbraste

Feel free to add any more versions that you find.

Maybe Dany or Joop can help us with the original Smile

dany

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En la sangre llevo el veneno de la música

dany @ 2019-06-03 13:16:42 UTC

http://latinpop.fiu.edu/downloadfiles2.html

---> L pt.2 Files (SECCION03Lpt2.pdf) pag. 103

Here we have a recording by Los Tres Ases

dated February 15, 1957, released in Mexico on Victor 23 7220


I can't find any data on what song was on the other side.


That record had to be released in 1957 because I found this possible compilation made in the USA

https://www.discogs.com/Various-Exitos-del-1957/release/11789658

baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-04 06:39:51 UTC

An earlier one:

Trío Hermanos Rigual, recorded 1956-10-30: RCA Victor 23 7143 and LP MKL 1108 "La Sensación de Cuba":

- http://latinpop.fiu.edu/SECCION02H.pdf page 84

- https://www.rootsvinylguide.com/ebay_items/rca-7143-hermanos-rigual-rafael-de-pa… (but this is 51 7143 not 23 7143, perhaps that is a 78??)

- https://www.discogs.com/Hermanos-Rigual-La-Sensacion-De-Cuba/release/8859502

---

There might be an earlier one than that, but the details seem wrong so I haven't been able to confirm:

Nilla Pizzi y Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa, recorded 1956-10-26: RCA Victor 23 7131, 51 7131, LP LPM 1534

- http://latinpop.fiu.edu/SECCION05PQ.pdf page 95

The problems are:

- in fact it's not on the LP LPM 1534 https://www.discogs.com/Nilla-Pizzi-Rendezvous-With-Nilla/release/13001088 (which does contain two other songs where Nilla Pizzi is backed by Orquesta Chucho Zarzosa)

- The number of the single RCA 23 7131 is also used for an apparent 1949 recording of this song by Tony Pizarro (immediately above Nilla Pizzi in the same PDF). 1949 must be a mistake I guess.

---

latinpop.fiu.edu lists 10-15 versions as released in 1957 but (i) recording dates are not given and (ii) often it only gives LP releases when there are also releases on 78 which I suppose could be earlier.

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jojo

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jojo @ 2019-06-04 09:34:59 UTC

Sorry for the late reaction.


After examining the latinpop database, Nilla Pizi seems to the first recording artist. Also given the matrix-numbers:


Nilla Pizzi:

Matrix #: G2ZB-9218

Recorded: October 26, 1956

Released on RCA Victor 23-7131 (78) /51-7131 (45)


Trio Hermanos Rigual:

Matrix #: G2ZB-9222

Recorded: October 30, 1956

Released on RCA Victor 23-7143 (78) /51-7143 (45)


Los Tres Ases:

Matrix #: H2ZB-2213

Recorded: February 15, 1957

Released on RCA Victor 23-7220 (78) /51-7220 (45)



Nilla Pizzi's version might have been released in Italy at the end of 1956 or early 1957.


https://www.discogs.com/Nilla-Pizzi-Ho-Ho-Ha-Ha/release/7960294


https://www.45cat.com/artist/nilla-pizzi



BUT another contender for first recording artist might be: Olga Guillot


https://www.discogs.com/Olga-Guillot-Y-La-Gran-Orquestra-Riverside-Romance-Y-Mel…


Lp Puchito 515 “Romance y Melodía con Olga Guillot” released 1956 ?


https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_Guillot


Here's a version by Olga released on a Columbia 45:


http://frontera.library.ucla.edu/recordings/porque-tu-me-acostumbraste



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Last edit: 2019-06-04 15:38:52 UTC by jojo

baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-04 09:57:58 UTC

In the Florida International University collection (no images unfortunately):

- Olga Guillot, 78 rpm Puchito 323 http://dpanther.fiu.edu/dpanther/items/itemdetail?bibid=FIDA007899&vid=00001

- Nilla Pizzi, 78 rpm Victor 23 7131 http://dpanther.fiu.edu/dpanther/items/itemdetail?bibid=FIDA002419&vid=00001

- Trío Hermanos Rigual, 78 rpm Victor 23 7143 http://dpanther.fiu.edu/dpanther/items/itemdetail?bibid=FIDA001580&vid=00001

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baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-05 05:32:42 UTC

http://latinpop.fiu.edu/SECCION02G.pdf page 168

Lp Puchito 515 “Romance y melodía con Olga Guillot” Grabado en La Habana en 1957.

I would go with Puchito 323 as the home label both of the recording and the artist. From page 164, she moved to Mexico in 1961.

Nilla Pizzi is the earliest recording we have, but I would be hesitant to say she actually is the earliest.

ps I added some scans to the Frank Domínguez canta sus canciones page - the cover art we are showing doesn't appear to come from the Gema release, but I don't suppose we will find good quality scans of that. I wonder if perhaps he had an earlier 78 that we don't know about?

Last edit: 2019-06-05 06:05:22 UTC by baggish

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jojo

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jojo @ 2019-06-05 11:45:59 UTC


I would go with Puchito 323 as the home label both of the recording and the artist. From page 164, she moved to Mexico in 1961.


Sure, Puchito was the label for which Olga recorded from 1954-1960.


I don't know the exact recording dates of both the Columbia-release and the Puchito-release.

As I said it was my "wild" guess based on the matrix-numbers.

Both were recorded with Orquesta Riverside conducted by Pedro Vila.


The Columbia-release has matrix-number G8-45-OP-9983

The Puchito-release has matrix-number H8-OB-3855


And in many cases the first 1 or 2 digits of the matrix-number are a code representing the recording-year.



PS maybe someone at this website can give us the answer


http://www.riverside1938.com/historia-de-la-orquesta/


Which Spanish-speaking editor or contributor could contact the webmaster of this site.


http://www.riverside1938.com/contactar/


osvaldoreynelATgmail.com


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Last edit: 2019-06-05 12:29:59 UTC by jojo

baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-06 14:59:37 UTC

Yes, I think the recording date is good. I wasn't sure about the cat. no. in latinpop, but dpanther seems to confirm that it exists. A picture would be nice of course! Anyway there is the Italian release. As Joop suggests, I think we've pretty much got everything that is certain, and there is still a lot that is vague that we probably won't be able to find (I might be channeling a bit too much Donald Rumsfeld especially as this is a Cuban topic... Happy )

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sebcat

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sebcat @ 2019-06-06 22:27:53 UTC

Yes, I think the recording date is good. I wasn't sure about the cat. no. in latinpop, but dpanther seems to confirm that it exists. A picture would be nice of course! Anyway there is the Italian release.

Okay sounds good. Two final questions:

- What's the source for the recording date?

- And should we go for RCA Victor or the Italian release?

baggish

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baggish @ 2019-06-07 06:58:57 UTC

- What's the source for the recording date?

http://latinpop.fiu.edu/SECCION05PQ.pdf page 95.

- And should we go for RCA Victor or the Italian release?

Well, Italian singer, Mexican orchestra, recorded in Mexico, difficult to say which is the home label, probably impossible at this distance to say which came first. (http://dpanther.fiu.edu/dpanther/items/itemdetail?bibid=FIDA352679&vid=00001 suggests the RCA Victor 51-7131 is a Mexican release, and similarly http://dpanther.fiu.edu/dpanther/items/itemdetail?bibid=FIDA002419&vid=00001 for the 78 rpm 23-7131.) Hmmm, just noticed that the matrix number on the Italian single is completely different to the one in latinpop, don't know what that means.

ps.

Just noticed as well that we already have Olga's album Romance y melodia in the db, so perhaps La Gran Orchesta Riverside (misspelt) and Orquesta Riverside can be merged? They seem to be "Gran" on the LP (discogs) but not the single...

Last edit: 2019-06-07 20:01:16 UTC by baggish

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jojo

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jojo @ 2019-06-07 16:00:26 UTC

Hmmm, just noticed that the matrix number on the Italian single is completely different to the one in latinpop, don't know what that means.

Well noticed Jon,


Somewhere I read, that different matrix-numbers can be assigned to the same recording or a recording from the same date (meant for release in other countries)


In case of RCA Victor the next link can be very helpfull in dating recordings from that label:

I think we should implement this link on the SHS website.


https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/694503


http://www.45rpmrecords.com/date_rca.php


In that Discogs link we also see that on December 10, 1954 a new system of master serial number codes was instituted that took effect at the start of 1955, in the wake of the full adoption of RCA's "New Orthophonic" High Fidelity system.

The code was located in the first letter and number of the eight digit matrix number up to 1954. In 1955 RCA changed it's system slightly so that the first letter alone represented the year.

The following chart shows the dating information from 1950 to 1960.


E0 - 1950

E1 - 1951

E2 - 1952

E3 - 1953

E4 - 1954

F - 1955

G - 1956

H - 1957

I - 1958

J - 1959

K - 1960


In the case of Nilla Pizzi this would mean:

The American release has matrix-number: G2ZB-9218, so is dated 1956. (G = 1956).


The Italian release has matrix-number: 2E6VW 2562

It looks like the Italians didn't change the numbering system in 1955 and continued with E5, E6 and so on. E6 would therefore mean 1956.


For comparison: the next Elvis Presley recording ("Shake, Rattle and Roll") has the same matrix number discrepancy.


https://www.discogs.com/Elvis-Presley-Lawdy-Miss-Clawdy-Shake-Rattle-And-Roll-/r…


https://www.discogs.com/Elvis-Presley-Shake-Rattle-And-Roll/release/11668626


American matrix-number: G2WB-1294

Italian matrix-number: 2E6VW 2516


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Last edit: 2019-06-07 16:27:26 UTC by jojo