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Several songs sharing the same melody

Oldiesmann

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Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-06-09 01:04:22 UTC

Several songs on the site all share the same melody but aren't listed as adaptations...


I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes

The Great Speckled Bird

Wild Side of Life (and of course its adaptations)


According to Wikipedia, the melody originated in the mid-20s with a song called "Thrills That I Can't Forget". There is a recording of that on YouTube as well, and it is the same tune (though the quality of the audio isn't great).

jojo

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jojo @ 2019-06-10 06:44:28 UTC

Several songs on the site all share the same melody but aren't listed as adaptations...


I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes

The Great Speckled Bird

Wild Side of Life (and of course its adaptations)


And you can add this one too: It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels


And then there is a very close melodical relationship with The Prisoner's Song


I have made a post about this songcluster on my blog a few years ago.


https://jopiepopie.blogspot.com/2013/12/prisoners-song-1925-blue-eyes-1927.html


JoJo greets

David King

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David King @ 2019-06-10 15:46:05 UTC

Of course, "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels" was an answer to "Wild Side of Life". I understand that Kitty Wells was temporarily banned from performing the song at the Grand Ole Opry and NBC radio refused to play her song (before it was edited).

Bastien

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Posts: 35819

Bastien @ 2019-06-23 07:20:26 UTC

Several songs on the site all share the same melody but aren't listed as adaptations...

According to Wikipedia, the melody originated in the mid-20s with a song called "Thrills That I Can't Forget".

If that's the case, they need "Thrills That I Can't Forget" as common root work.

Are you planning to make the changes?

Oldiesmann

Managing Editor
Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-10-07 03:03:15 UTC

Just added another cover of "Blue Eyes" and remembered this topic. Any objections to making necessary changes so all of these share a common root work?

Oldiesmann

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Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-11-19 00:39:02 UTC

Found yet another adaptation of the melody - "The Failed Musicians" by Homer & Jethro.


We need to get this sorted out so I can add that as well (I realize I can just pick one of the works and move it later on but I'd prefer to have less work to do in that regard).


Based on jojo's blog post I guess we should start with "The Prisoner's Song" as the root work and go on from there?

sebcat

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Posts: 7969

sebcat @ 2019-11-19 00:48:58 UTC

Not familiar with these works, Michael, but your approach sounds sensible. Do you have any sources or evidence to link them?

Oldiesmann

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Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-11-19 03:58:33 UTC

"The Prisoner's Song" has a bit of a different melody, but all the rest clearly have the same melody.


Wikipedia mentions this in the article for "Great Speckled Bird":

The tune is the same apparently traditional melody used in the song "Thrills That I Can't Forget," recorded by Welby Toomey and Edgar Boaz for Gennett in 1925, and the song "I'm Thinking Tonight of My Blue Eyes," originally recorded by the Carter Family for Victor in 1929. The same melody was later used in the 1952 country hit "The Wild Side of Life," sung by Hank Thompson, and the even more successful "answer song" performed by Kitty Wells called "It Wasn't God Who Made Honky Tonk Angels" in the same year.


I'll have to do some digging to see if I can find anything else definitive, but listening to the various songs (with the exception of "The Prisoner's Song" anyway) it's obvious they all share the same melody.

walt

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walt @ 2019-11-19 10:00:27 UTC

This page Do, Lord, Remember Me is how you want it?


It's a bit overwhelming and also not entirely correct either: I think there are some small melodic variants. This would also have an impact on the instrumentals.

jojo

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Posts: 1755

jojo @ 2019-11-19 15:15:46 UTC

Found yet another adaptation of the melody - "The Failed Musicians" by Homer & Jethro.


Michael, that would be "The Finished Musicians". Wink



Based on jojo's blog post I guess we should start with "The Prisoner's Song" as the root work and go on from there?


I think Walt pointed out the way to go.

You could start with "Thrills That I Can't Forget," recorded by Welby Toomey and Edgar Boaz for Gennett in 1925, as the root work.

I would prefer to start with The Prisoner's Song as the root work.


I agree with you it's a little bit different, but it has very close connections with "Blue Eyes" as recorded by North Carolina Ramblers and Roy Harvey.


https://vmauctions.com/items/item_details.php?id=4947


https://www.discogs.com/North-Carolina-Ramblers-And-Roy-Harvey-Kitty-Blye-Blue-E…


The second ("Oh, please meet me tonight in the moonlight") and last verse ("Now if I had wings like an angel") of both songs are almost identical.


?t=56

?t=58


And subsequently the Carter Family literally copied the first verse from "Blue Eyes" as recorded by North Carolina Ramblers and Roy Harvey.


So, I mean, there's a heavy connection between all the songs mentioned.


Jojo greets

SlimD

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SlimD @ 2019-11-19 20:18:48 UTC

Johnny Bond and Cowboy Copas had a little fun related to this topic:

Oldiesmann

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Oldiesmann @ 2019-11-22 23:04:38 UTC

So is the best option for now to just adjust the adaptations and work on credits later?

Bastien

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Bastien @ 2019-11-24 15:56:46 UTC

Was there an issue with the credits?

Oldiesmann

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Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-11-24 21:24:35 UTC

I don't know yet as I haven't looked to see how the various PROs credit everything. At the very least we'll need to remove the music credits for the various works since they all share the same melody.

Oldiesmann

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Posts: 2733

Oldiesmann @ 2019-11-24 21:41:27 UTC

Moved a few instrumental versions to the root work and removed the music credits from the lyricizations. Everything seems to be fine credit-wise now.

Tar Heel

Member
Posts: 5771

Tar Heel @ 2019-11-24 21:54:09 UTC

Just a general comment...


When a piece of music or a set of lyrics (e.g. from a poem) is used for several different works, this can result in major visualization problems when those works are further adapted, at least from this user's perspective. What work is being translated? The groupings get very hard to figure out.


I would prefer seeing a new page created to start fresh when this happens....