Bill Monroe "Memories of You" vs. "Those Memories of You"

We have a country song on the site called "Those Memories of You" by Alan O'Bryant (who used to be in James Monroe's (Bill's son) band. It was made popular by the Dolly Parton Trio. The orig. performance was done by Bill & James Monroe in 1978 (I added the album video and noted when it starts).

Those Memories of You

When I was going through a Monroe & Doc Watson album they performed a song called "Memories of You" that Doc said was one of Bill's old tunes in the video. It started off very similarly to the song I knew and had a similar tune.

So I got to looking. Monroe released a 1950 single called "Memories of You" and it was credited to a James B. Smith on the label.

Memories of You

Here's the Doc & Monroe song:

Memories of You

When I created the Work for the 1950 version BMI credited "James M. Smith" and GEMA credited "James Marcus Smith". Lo and behold the IPIs to both matched P.J. Proby's (who is James Marcus Smith). I was dubious and when I saw he was born in 1938 I clearly knew this wasn't his song.

So I have two things I need help on:

1) Songwriting credit on "Memories of You". I can't leave it linked to Proby despite what the PROs have because he was 11 or 12 years old at the oldest when this song was penned. I can just make up an artist called "James B. Smith" (to match Bill's 45 label credit) and put it there with no info. or I can just credit it to Monroe. I couldn't locate any catalog of copyright entries pages but hopefully one of you can. The only two covers I've added so far didn't list credits. Unfortunately the 1950 "Memories of You" song isn't well known I'm finding out.

Wiki does have an artist page for a James B. Smith

https://www.discogs.com/artist/2876455-James-B-Smith

https://www.discogs.com/Reno-Smiley-A-Day-In-The-Country/release/4716778

You will see some country songs of Monroe's on there. Memories of You and I'm Blue, I'm Lonesome. On the Reno & Smiley album it credits I'm Blue, I'm Lonesome to James B. Smith but we credit Monroe so I'm thinking maybe that could just be an alias (esp. when Doc Watson said in the video that it was an old tune of Bill's). But that James B. Smith page also has some soul credits that prob are for another James B. Smith. I'm inclined to just credit Monroe but I would like some veterans' more informed opinions.

2) The similarity between "Memories of You" and "Those Memories of You". I was very confused when I first thought I was adding a cover to the original we had. Listen to the Pat Enright version (the 3rd song listed on the "Memories of You" page and compare it to any video on the "Those Memories of You" page. Both songs start off the same except for the word "sweetheart". I added the lyrics to "Memories of You" on my Work and Commented on the similarities to "Those Memories of You" and hyperlinked it to the other Work (and we probably should now reference the new Work on the other page so we make it easier on those to follow). I'm not sure if "Those Memories of You" qualifies as an adaptation of "Memories of You". It may just be a deal where it clearly needs to be documented, but I thought I'd ask for a more experienced person's opinion.

Thanks for your time.

Mark

Probably you will need to dig a bit deeper to confirm, but http://yeahpot.com/monroe/bill.php says that James B. Smith is an alias for Bill Monroe. Seems possible as Smith is Monroe's middle name.

P.J. Proby does have a song called Memories of You, on https://www.discogs.com/PJ-Proby-Clown-Shoes/release/6204868 but obviously a different song.

I'm Blue, I'm Lonesome: have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%27m_Blue,_I%27m_Lonesome which we agree with. I guess the Reno & Smiley album was before the legal case.

Probably James B. Smith should be an alias of Bill Monroe (I think you should try to find better sources to confirm). If there's a "real" James B. Smith as well, yes discogs and maybe even the PROs could mix them up.

I really appreciate your assistance here in settling that. I will add a "James B. Smith" alias to Monroe's Artist page too.

Part of the problem with searching for credits in the PROs is we tend to know the answer ahead of time. The only one I saw was James M. Smith without knowing that that person also wrote one. It took me a bit to make the leap to Proby. I won't even link the PROs if they are referring to an entirely diff song. I will just explain it. But it's odd that it wouldn't be registered someone in James B. Smith as I haven't encountered songs of his that new that weren't registered.

Now I just need someone to give me their thoughts on whether the newer song should qualify as an adaptation or just commenting is sufficient.

I found it in GEMA as 2454825-001 (I'm not sure how the GEMA search works, you might have to search for 2454825). It doesn't seem to be in ISWC, didn't check anywhere else.

Okay, I'm an absolute moron. I sure thought I had done that I guess I already lord. Thx I will add the credit and it reaffirms that is his alias.

I still need someone to listen to both versions of the two songs and give me their opinion.

I'm just getting around to looking at this topic and see you have already identified the writer as Bill Monroe. Richard D. Smith in his book, "Can't You Hear Me Callin': The Life of Bill Monroe, Father of Blues" states that Bill Monroe wrote the song which Smith describes as "surely a product of the misery caused by the Mauldin-Gunn relationship." (Bessie Lee Mauldin was Bill's long-time girl friend.)

So at this time my only contribution is to add the copyright details as an attachment on the works page.

Murray

Thx Murray, per chance did you listen to both both versions of the song?

Hi Mark,

I listened to both songs and they are absolutelty different

Thx Dirk, so how we have them set up as different songs is correct then. I had just wanted your opinion so thx for weighing in.