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Scarborough Fair (Trad) vs Scarborough Fair / Canticle (Simon & Garfunkel)

mduval32323

Editor
Posts: 931

mduval32323 @ 2021-01-12 23:55:02 UTC

Scarborough Fair is such a well known and often covered song but I always struggle with where cover performances belong - especially instrumentals. The reality is most American Artist releases with performances of Scarborough Fair will likely credit Simon & Garfunkel out of an abundance of caution and probably will use the long title even if it's an instrumental, so going by vinyl labels probably isn't ideal here. SHS set up the Simon & Garfunkel adaptation as a lyricization but we also credited Simon & Garfunkel for new music as well so now we have approx. 100 cover performances of Scarborough Fair down below the adaptation (when we typically would NOT do that). Sebastian said there may be a new melody element as well and to post this on the forum for feedback. If there is the new musical piece then we need to explain this in the Work comments and probably somehow give people guidance between the melody differences that are so great they require our putting instrumentals in the adaptation. You know me, I'm not a fan of musical adaptations because it makes it very difficult to assign covers and we end up with disparate treatment of like performances (and frankly, I don't have a good musical ear). My gut tells me we likely have a lot of instrumental covers parked in the adaptation that really could be in the Traditional Work (and the song titles really are probably not a good indicator of where they should go).

I'd appreciate any help here.

Scarborough Fair / Canticle

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Mark

sebcat

Managing Editor
Posts: 5657

sebcat @ 2021-01-13 00:05:57 UTC

If there is the new musical piece then we need to explain this in the Work comments and probably somehow give people guidance between the melody differences that are so great they require our putting instrumentals in the adaptation. You know me, I'm not a fan of musical adaptations because it makes it very difficult to assign covers and we end up with disparate treatment of like performances (and frankly, I don't have a good musical ear). My gut tells me we likely have a lot of instrumental covers parked in the adaptation that really could be in the Traditional Work (and the song titles really are probably not a good indicator of where they should go).

Thanks for raising this, mduval32323 . I agree that we need to explain adaptations more clearly than we do, except for the obvious translations. In this case, the key is whether there are new musical elements that have been added to the traditional work.

artsinspired

Managing Editor
Posts: 942

artsinspired @ 2021-01-13 05:48:25 UTC

I've always struggled with where to place versions of Scarborough Fair so I probably can't be of much help here. I'll listen again to some versions and see if I can identify the new musical element(s) of Simon & Garfunkel's rendition.

VirileVagabond

Certified Contributor II
Posts: 5017

VirileVagabond @ 2021-01-13 06:04:43 UTC

On a far back burner somewhere, I have plans to reconcile my notes with SHS in this regard (completely deferring to the editors unless something really jumps); therefore, glad to see this come up. I avoid submitting covers of this one, even hesitating to include a work internal link in the "additional covers" list due to not wanting to take a position.


Initially responded to just confirm I read and considered the post (which most do not), but after further consideration perhaps a default placement is in order. All vocal and instrumental performances get grouped together unless it's a clear exception. Some public comment and/or e-note should be added on exceptions to document the why.

jojo

Certified Contributor II
Posts: 1282

jojo @ 2021-01-13 11:15:52 UTC

As JoAnn and Mark rightly point out, it is extremely difficult to determine whether certain instrumentals are the traditional or the S&G version.

As for the instrumental versions, the easiest way, as Mark suggests, would be to treat them like a traditional work.

Because the current setup of instrumental versions is a bit of a mess.

Some versions, which are now considered a traditional, are in fact the S&G version (with the counter melody).


For example:

Scarborough Fair


Scarborough Fair


BTW there are also at least 3 versions in the lyrical section, that are in fact instrumental versions.


Scarborough Fair / Canticle


Scarborough Fair / Canticle


Scarborough Fair


JoJo greets

mduval32323

Editor
Posts: 931

mduval32323 @ 2021-01-14 00:41:19 UTC

Thank you so much the responses. Jojo, I will happily move the peformances you identified in question but right now we are in a holding pattern. Normally I would take charge at addressing all this myself but Bastien is the one who created the Adaptation and our past history suggests I steer clear until he interjects here. I'm happy to take the lead once that's allowed but it's incumbent upon him at this point so the topic may grow stale before he has the time to see this and respond.

Also, I apologize for reply requesting, Sebastian is teaching me how to tag people instead.

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Mark