New artist feature: Gender

Dear contributors,

Following discussions with people in the field of musical identification research, we have introduced a new artist feature: Gender, options Male/Female/Non-binary.

This additional metadata will allow many different applications:

• Research differences between cover versions related to gender, for example similarity to the original version.
• Lots of new queries, for example: "list all cover versions by male solo artists of works written by female artists". We're sure you can come up with more and probably better ideas.

This new feature is of course only available for artists of the type "person", not for the type "group".

ANY user with a SecondHandSongs account will be able to update artist profiles, and this is a premiere for this project

Questions? Comments? Suggestions? We're listening

To: djFLWB Scousedave ZZT snap07801 Bendysan Wikke jojo DROSSELBOY besf freakscener Mark_Heyrman dany blues99man roscoebank Ronald Joel Harris Philsmith JohanV rbrnb maryhelen vic.diriken vinyljunkierekkids Huffy Sjef Smeets spsr Jukka Tarvonen carlkranz Lovinda bacon flip Sportin Life CompactDiscs GentlemanGhost renato74 Izzy Remmer Gerard Verbaandert Chuckysinlove BuggZugg mhstag gutner cryoclaste hdcannes subject2wmbr ElvisNor

Last edit: 2022-01-05 08:21:46 UTC by Bastien

read

Read.

Read

Looks like a rabbit hole to me. Adding race and sexual preference next?

Quote from VirileVagabond

Looks like a rabbit hole to me. Adding race and sexual preference next?

...which is sort of why I didn't comment in the first place and initially just answered 'Read'.

However, upon reading the initial message, lines like "Shaved her legs and then he was a she" came to my mind and later also the question how to treat the (un)likes of Wendy (Walter?) Carlos, Genesis P-Orridge and Anohni (= ex Antony Hegarty) and others?

To in short and straight reply to Questions? Comments? Suggestions? We're listening:

IMHO, this is an astonishingly unnecessary and uncalled-for feature. 99+ % of all Person artists' sexes are identifiable by their (real) names, anyway. So why?

'Non-binary', which we might be expected to apply to a. o. the above mentioned artists, is a generalizing term used for anyone not distinctly being a man or a woman - and therefore by people in question deemed discriminating.

Though surely also needing to offer songwriting and recording artists' relevant data, gendering goes beyond the SHS mission of being the world's leading and most detailed works/versions documenting database.

PS: Time will tell if opening artist gendering to all users will really be helpful.

camembert electrique Comment raises several thoughts:

a) Why wasn't this discussed with the editors, the people most familiar with SHS rather than just "musical identification" experts? Admittedly, I no longer have a dog in those fights.

b) Non-binary seems so charged. I've expressed concerns that adding genre will cause lots of reports regarding (e.g.) Nu Metal vs. Dark Metal and why have just Country rather than all the sub-genres. I like having broad genres added, but that is worth the value added in my view.

c) SHS isn't really an artist bio site, so why open the door?

d) We added this but not political sub-units (e.g.) US-NY or GB-Wales?

From my point of view:

That data is unnecessary. His casuistry has nothing to do with the practice of the art of music.

Additional thought.... It wasn't long ago that there was a discussion about similar info in the bios, and we decided that it could be offensive to some, at least as then presented. Several bios were revised as a result.

Quote from dany

From my point of view:

That data is unnecessary. His casuistry has nothing to do with the practice of the art of music.

Fully agreed. Actually, the Spanish connotation is very much to the point.

Last edit: 2022-01-07 01:42:24 UTC by camembert electrique

Quote from VirileVagabond

Additional thought.... It wasn't long ago that there was a discussion about similar info in the bios, and we decided that it could be offensive to some, at least as then presented. Several bios were revised as a result.

Had already forgotten about that discussion...

Quote from camembert electrique

Had already forgotten about that discussion...

To be fair, those revised bios heavily emphasized that aspect of those artists, so it drew attention and discussion. The feature under discussion now is a dropdown, but concerns still remain.

Quote from VirileVagabond

Quote from camembert electrique

Had already forgotten about that discussion...

To be fair, those revised bios heavily emphasized that aspect of those artists, so it drew attention and discussion. The feature under discussion now is a dropdown, but concerns still remain.

'Forgotten' was maybe the wrong word. 'Disappeared in the back of my brain as conclusion found' might fit better... But that discussion surely matters to the new issue.

Quote from Bastien

We're listening

Are you in training to be a politician?

I have already added genre for several performers.

Read.

Quote from camembert electrique

PS: Time will tell if opening artist gendering to all users will really be helpful.

True. And time will also tell whether it will generate the issues that some are fearing.

Quote from baggish

Are you in training to be a politician?

In my case, probably not the best career move 😅

Read.

read