Why do I need to create an artist again if he is already existing in the database?

While creating a new work I am asked to create an existing artist again with all the additional information like link, image, DoB etc. See the attached image. I enter the artist Damian Wilson in the Performer field without any typos or so and even the name appears to be be selected. But once I select it, the database reacts like he is not existing. In the fields Author and Composer he is correctly recognized and I can choose him from the displayed options. Am I doing something wrong? I have a video of the behaviour but can't upload it here.

Last edit: 2020-05-30 19:45:15 UTC by Pommel

I've also had this happen sometimes (when I've submitted a new cover; I don't recall it happening when I've submitted a new -- "original" -- work). I suspect it's just an occasional glitch. When it does I cut-and-paste the URL of the internal shs artist page into the performer slot.

Damian Wilson is on site, but not currently as "Damian Wilson" alone, only as half of a duo or as a "featured" artist. In this situation, there is no need to duplicate bio info. There is no "correct" way to handle this situation, but I would:

a) Submit the artist as "Damian Wilson [Artist on Site]";

b) Put the artist's internal link in the bio field and the body of the submission.

Seems still very unlogic to me and also is confusing as the entries do not show up on the artist's page.

The submission form asks a performer, not an artist. There's no such performer yet as explained above, so you cannot select it. I know it sounds strange from an end user perspective, but this a current limitation.

Mathieu,

Would it make sense to automatically create a performer alias of an artist, identical to his common name, when creating that artist?

Yes, but that's not the issue. It's the form that currently asks for a performer, not an artist. It is possible, but it requires extra coding

When I know about that issue, it is not so big of a deal anymore. However it is (was) confusing. Especially that the 'artist' is displayed to be selected in the 'performer' field but then not able to be used. It took me a while to even understand the concept when you explained it above. What's the difference of artist and performer, for a casual user it seems like the same. I get that the database handles them differently and that i.e. several artists can be combined to one performer.

Quote from Mathieu

Yes, but that's not the issue. It's the form that currently asks for a performer, not an artist. It is possible, but it requires extra coding

But if you change the form in such a way that it asks for the artist, don't we end up with another problem?

Somebody might want to attribute a song to Davie Jones with The King Bees (a David Bowie alias) and will either end up creating a new artist else frustrated having to fill in David Bowie.

Quote from Pommel

However it is (was) confusing.

You're not the first to be confused about this, we need to find a solution.

The solution would be that the performer field also accepts artist names.

When an artist name is detected, the artist info must be shown.

When storing the submission, the matching artist id must be recorded.

When processing such a submission, the performance form must be filled in with performer name = artist name and performing artists = selected artist.

.. and probably a few other tweaks.

a) Does this problem exist in the reverse situation, namely the artist is on site as a performer but not as a writer. If I add a new original with that artist as a writer, do we get the same issues? If not, why not?

b) This same problem gets a new thread each time a new contributor runs into this situation (~every 6 months or so). I started one myself back in the day. If that contributor sticks around, they likely just find a preferred work around.

Each time the answer has been too much trouble to fix, which I can respect. Nevertheless, the upside of that effort isn't just a more efficient submission processes but eliminating revisiting every 6 months. Whether changes the cost/benefit decision I leave to my betters,

Quote from VirileVagabond

a) Does this problem exist in the reverse situation, namely the artist is on site as a performer but not as a writer. If I add a new original with that artist as a writer, do we get the same issues? If not, why not?

No, writers are artists, while performers are aliases for artists. There can't be an alias without artist, but an artist without alias is possible.

Fixed: additional artist info isn't asked anymore when the artist (but no performer/alias) exists.

Just tested for an artist without artist alias, David Carron , and it works! Thanks for the fix

Quote from Bastien

Just tested for an artist without artist alias, David Carron , and it works! Thanks for the fix

Thanks for checking this out, will be much less confusing for me.