Search

Generic submission

open

I've Got a Woman

Submitted by

SlimD

On October 12, 2011

Description

I've Got a Woman


Recording: I Love Her So/I Got a Woman

Performed by

Ramblin' Jack Elliot

First release

On audio album Ramblin' Jack Elliot

Prestige/International 13033 (1961)



Song info

Song

I Love Her So

Written by

Ray Charles

First release

Hallelujah I Love Her So by Ray Charles on audio single

Hallelujah I Love Her So (May 1956)

Issued on Atlantic 1996

Language

English




Song info

Song

I've Got a Woman

Written by

Renald J. Richard, Ray Charles

First release

I've Got a Woman by Ray Charles and His Band on audio single I've Got a Woman (December 1954)

Issued on Atlantic 1050

Language

English


Note: Ray Charles' I've Got a Woman was based on the recording

It Must Be Jesus by The Southern Tones issued in 1954 on Duke 205.


Reference:

http://www.78discography.com/Duke.htm


YouTube:


References:


Liner notes to Ramblin' Jack Elliot (Prestige/International 13033)


Ramblin' Jack Elliott discography:

http://www.wirz.de/music/elliofrm.htm


Ray Charles Discorgraphy:

http://raycharles.com/ray-charles-singles/

History

Comment by Bastien
2011-11-19 20:37:14 UTC

Recording: I Love Her So/I Got a Woman

Performed by

Ramblin' Jack Elliot

First release

On audio album Ramblin' Jack Elliot

Prestige/International 13033 (1961)


Added: I Love Her So / I Got a Woman

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-19 20:49:15 UTC

Note: Ray Charles' I've Got a Woman was based on the recording

It Must Be Jesus by The Southern Tones issued in 1954 on Duke 205.


That's spectacular news to me. Please elaborate?

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-20 05:36:57 UTC

Listen to the Ray Charles recording



and compare it to the recording by the Southern Tones (YouTube link in a previous message). You'll hear how similar they are.


Actually, several of the great songs Ray recorded for Atlantic in the 50's were copied from Gospel recordings.


For example, compare his recording of This Little Girl of Mine (Atlantic 1063) from 1955




with the Ward Singers This Little Light of Mine (Savoy 4038) from 1952



Also Ray Charles' recording of Lonely Avenue (written by Doc Pomus) sounds very much like a recording by the Pilgrim Travelers on Specialty. (I'll have to listen to some of the recordings in my collection to remember which one.)


Several other R&B artists in the 50's did the same thing. I talked with Hank Ballard (of the Midnighters) about 40 years ago. He told me that he copied several Gospel recordings in the fifties.


Here is an example that he didn't mention. Compare What Is This I See by Hank Ballard and the Midnighters (King 5491) from 1961



with Standing in the Judgement by the Sensational Nightingales (Peacock 1804) from 1959


 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-20 14:01:08 UTC

and compare it to the recording by the Southern Tones (YouTube link in a previous message). You'll hear how similar they are.


Quite striking actually!


What's your source for the release year 1954?

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-20 16:43:26 UTC

Good point! The Duke label discography that I referenced previously is not conclusive.


However, Duke/Peacock has an ad for "It Must Be Jesus" by the Southern Tones (Duke 205) on page 18 of the April 24, 1954 issue of Billboard.

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-20 21:31:03 UTC

However, Duke/Peacock has an ad for "It Must Be Jesus" by the Southern Tones (Duke 205) on page 18 of the April 24, 1954 issue of Billboard.


That convincing clearly.


On the scan I can see the song is credited to one "Bob King". What you have to do in these cases is check whether this artist already exists in the database or not.


Bob King

Bobby King


Is it one of these guys. If yes, then we use it, if no, we try to find biographical elements like

- full real name

- date of birth/death

- home country

- picture


The idea is the more precise more, the better we will able to differentiate between the all the Bob Kings that are around.


So now up to you Smile

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-20 22:24:33 UTC

Bob King was a member of the Southern Tones. He often sang lead. The Vocal Group Harmony web site has a little information about this group:


http://www.vocalgroupharmony.com/JustAClo.htm


This page also has a label scan of "Just a Closer Walk with Thee" by the Southern Tones (Duke 207). It shows Bob King also wrote "Just a Closer Walk with Thee."


Obviously, he was a gifted songwriter Wink



A VERY INTERESTING NOTE:


While looking for online references to support the fact that Bob King was a member of the group I made another exciting discovery.


My search brought me to Joe Knapp's MusicMaster Oldies blog where the connection between the Southern Tones recording and Ray Charles' "I Got a Woman" is mentioned. But here I learned that Aretha Franklin's "Chain of Fools" was copied from the 1967 recording by Elijah Fair And The Sensational Gladys Davis Trio of "Pains of Life" issued on Feron 108. You can listen to "Pains of Life" on this site.


http://musicmasteroldies.blogspot.com/2009/09/it-must-be-jesus.html

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-21 13:32:14 UTC

Bob King of the Southern Tones is not one of the Bob Kings previously in the database. I'm still researching him and will provide details later.


However, at this point I'll mention that he was a song writer, guitarist, and singer (baritone). In 1955 he joined the Soul Stirrers playing guitar and singing with Sam Cooke. Unfortunately, King died shortly after joining the Soul Stirrers.

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-21 19:15:39 UTC

Okay we have to create a new Bob King.


I researched the copyright database to find "It Must Be Jesus", and I found one Rudolph King: http://repertoire.bmi.com/title.asp?blnWriter=True&blnPublisher=True&blnArtist=T…


Is Rudolph King an alias for Bob King, or his real name? Or is this a different song?

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-21 21:29:01 UTC

Rudolph King is his real name. I am finding this previously obscure performer rather interesting as I get to know more about him.


He was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In the 1930s he began to perform with friends. One of them, Howard Carroll, eventually became a member of the Dixie Hummingbirds while King went on to join the Soul Stirrers. Two great gospel groups!


It turns out that King is mentioned in two books I read years ago:


Jerry Zolten, Great God A'mighty!, the Dixie Hummingbirds: celebrating the rise of soul gospel music


and


Peter Guralnick, Dream Boogie: the triumph of Sam Cooke


Attached is an early photo of King from Zolten's book.

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-21 21:36:38 UTC

Now that's nice progress Smile


And how do you know Bob King = Rudolph King ?

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-23 19:47:47 UTC

Sent by SlimD:


To answer your question concerning Rudolph King = Bob King - this was

mentioned in Jerry Zolten's book on the Dixie Hummingbirds and in

Guralnick's book on Sam Cooke.


Here are some interesting quotes.


Peter Guralnick, Dream Boogie: the triumph of Sam Cooke

p 120

That was the summer that twenty-seven-year-old guitarist Bob King joined

the group. Bob King was a Philadelphian who had grown up with both the

Sensational Nightingales guitarist JoJo Wallace and Harold Carroll, one of

the founders of the Gales and currently guitarist with the Dixie

Hummingbirds, whose wife was King's wife's sister. All three had played

together as teenagers, at house parties as well as churches, and all three

shared a bluesy style which in Bob King's case was fueled by a particular

enthusiasm for the music of North Carolina bluesman Blind Boy Fuller. King

had been playing with the Southern Tones, whose hit number was the recent

inspiration for Ray Charles' "I Got a Woman," but the Tones had curtailed

their travel, and when Howard Carroll told his brother-in-law that the

Stirrers were looking for a guitarist, Bob jumped at the chance.


Peter Guralnick, Dream Boogie: the triumph of Sam Cooke

p 663

Background information on Bob King is primarily from interviews with Howard

Carroll, JoJo Wallace, and Edith King. Jerry Zolten originally put me onto

the connection between Carroll and King, whose picture together appears in

Zolten's book Great God A'Mighty!: The Dixie Hummingbirds under King's given

name of Rudolf. Jerry also provided me with an introduction to Harold

Carroll.



Jerry Zolten, Great God A'Mighty!:

p 224


Referring to Howard Carroll:


By the late 1930s, he formed his own group with friends Bob King and Shorty

Scott, calling themselves Ace, Deuce, and Trey. "I was Deuce," says Carroll.


Then we changed our name to the Hot Dog Rhythm Boys. Two guitars and a

washtub. We did all of the songs the bands played. Louis Jordan, Nat King

Cole, Lonnie Johnson, The Three Blazes, Cats and the Fiddle. They were my

boys. We did a lot of their material.


We used to go to a nightclub - Palumbo's - downtown. Just walk in. And when

the band takes a break, the man would announce, "and now we have a special

treat. Ace, Deuce, and Trey!" My man starts bumping up there with that

washtub, White audiences. Yeah, man, they loved it!

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-23 20:19:23 UTC

So there it is, the original of I've Got a Woman: It Must Be Jesus ! Smile

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-11-23 20:26:39 UTC

For example, compare his recording of This Little Girl of Mine (Atlantic 1063) from 1955


with the Ward Singers This Little Light of Mine (Savoy 4038) from 1952


Who are composers/authors of "This Little Light of Mine"?

 
Comment by SlimD
submitter
2011-11-23 23:44:24 UTC

No writer or publisher credits are given on the original 78 (see attached label images).


No writer or publisher credits appeared when the record was reviewed in the August 9, 1952 issue of Billboard.


Note the performer information on the labels:


Savoy 4038

The Ward Singers, This Little Light of Mine

b/w

Clara Ward, Clara Ward, Clara Ward, Just a Little While


In the early fifties some studios were beginning to experiment with multi-tracking. For example, there are Mercury recordings that list Patti Page four times to emphasize the "novelty" of multi-tracking. So it appears that Savoy was doing this with Clara Ward.


However, session information given at http://www.jazzdisco.org/savoy-records/discography-1952/ indicates otherwise.


The Famous Ward Singers

Gertrude Ward, Clara Ward, Henrietta Waddy, Marion Williams, Willa Ward Moultrie (vocal group) and others

May 7, 1952

US11703 That's Enough For Me Savoy MG 14020

US11704 I'm Holding On Savoy MG 14020, DBL 7015

US11705 This Little Light Of Mine Savoy 4038, MG 15057, MG 14001, MG 14078, DBL 7015

US11707 He Delivered Me Savoy MG 14020

  • The Famous Ward Singers - Packin' Up (Savoy MG 14020)
  • The Best Of The Ward Singers (Savoy DBL 7015)
  • The Ward Singers - Surely God Is Able (Savoy MG 14001)
  • The Best Of Clara Ward (Savoy MG 14078)
  • The Famous Ward Singers - Hymns (Savoy MG 15057)
  • The Ward Singers - This Little Light Of Mine b/w Clara Ward - Just A Little While (Savoy 4038)


To my ears, it's the Ward Singers and not just Clara multi-tracking.


Another interesting note: Little Richard was a fan of the Ward Singers. Listening to their version of "This Little Light of Mine" it's not hard to see where Richard learned some vocal techniques used on "Tutti Frutti" and other recordings.

 
Comment by Bastien
2011-12-04 20:38:49 UTC

No writer or publisher credits are given on the original 78 (see attached label images).

No writer or publisher credits appeared when the record was reviewed in the August 9, 1952 issue of Billboard.


That's rather problematic for creating a new "work". Maybe the answer is in one of the following (highly recommended) sources: http://www.secondhandsongs.com/wiki/Main/Bookmarks#composers

 
Change by shs
2017-02-12 13:07:14 UTC
Conversion from forum topic to generic submission